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  • #46
    Originally posted by I_C_DeadPeople View Post
    Is he better than Peko?
    Nobody is better than Peko.

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    • #47
      Originally posted by Lewdog View Post
      We didn't get anyone? You can't discount getting WJIII and Billings just because of injuries.
      WHAT? As of right now, they were HARMFUL rather than helpful. We actually LOST by drafting them. Would have had SOMEONE who at least took hits & blocked / played snaps and hit someone, vs. expensive IR line items who contributed zero and added uncertainty.




      That happens and they'll be back.
      You have ZERO idea, and only hoping they'll ever play / matter. As of right now, they're utter disasters. "It happens"? Yes, it does. But whether it happens or not, is wholly irrelevant to whether they were catastrophically wrong picks, which as of right now they both were.



      Boyd played a lot and put up stats better than Sanu and not far off from Jones, Vigil played a lot for a Marvin rookie, Cody Core showed a lot of promise,
      Boyd and Core played well for rookies. Vigil? Eh, whatever. Maybe a decent backup if he is more consistently in position.


      To say the Bengals didn't get anything out of the 2016 draft is silly.
      They got terribly little. There's no way around it. Zero difference makers. Some guys who might log decent snaps routinely? Sure. No starters. You can't have a draft with zero starters.

      Erickson was stellar and a value. Not drafted and probably most impactful rookie.
      ///M
      The most powerful letter in the alphabet

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      • #48
        Originally posted by CinciFan View Post
        WHAT? As of right now, they were HARMFUL rather than helpful. We actually LOST by drafting them. Would have had SOMEONE who at least took hits & blocked / played snaps and hit someone, vs. expensive IR line items who contributed zero and added uncertainty.






        You have ZERO idea, and only hoping they'll ever play / matter. As of right now, they're utter disasters. "It happens"? Yes, it does. But whether it happens or not, is wholly irrelevant to whether they were catastrophically wrong picks, which as of right now they both were.





        Boyd and Core played well for rookies. Vigil? Eh, whatever. Maybe a decent backup if he is more consistently in position.




        They got terribly little. There's no way around it. Zero difference makers. Some guys who might log decent snaps routinely? Sure. No starters. You can't have a draft with zero starters.

        Erickson was stellar and a value. Not drafted and probably most impactful rookie.
        You can't blame a team for drafting poorly because of freak injuries in training camp... Jesus dude. You going to blame the front office for the weather next?

        Comment


        • #49
          WJIII, Billings, et al., are going to be joining real rookies this TC. They may have the benefit of having a full year to learn system, be in the building, etc, but on-the-field-wise, they will be as green as the true newbies. As fans, we will need to be careful not to label them as "busts" if they do not hit the ground running right away. They will take time to develop--just like the rookies they essentially are.

          And call me overly optimistic, but I did see Fisher come on by leaps and bounds the latter part of the year. IMO he has the stuff to be a very good RT. Ced is going to have the benefit of working behind one of the best in the business for 1-2 more years...and he does possess the raw physical tools to be a special LT. Athleticism, speed, agility cannot be coached, and this guy has all of this in spades. He had no business being a RT..it isn't his style. Even the hated Bodine played remarkably better the last half of the season--leading me to believe the light came on for him. He too has good physical tools to be better than average.

          The place where they should be focusing on in FA and draft (in order of "need"):

          Linebacker
          Defensive End
          Kicker
          "This game isn't worth it. The National Football League isn't worth it. There's golf to be played and tennis to be served up and other things to be done out there besides worryin' about a friggin' football game."----The prophet Sam Wyche

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          • #50
            Originally posted by Le Tigre View Post
            Ced is going to have the benefit of working behind one of the best in the business for 1-2 more years...and he does possess the raw physical tools to be a special LT. Athleticism, speed, agility cannot be coached, and this guy has all of this in spades. He had no business being a RT..it isn't his style. Even the hated Bodine played remarkably better the last half of the season--leading me to believe the light came on for him. He too has good physical tools to be better than average.
            r
            1 to 2 more years? His contract will be up by then or close to it and he'll be bye-bye. Bodine is still garbage, he needs to go.

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            • #51
              Have any better ideas?
              "This game isn't worth it. The National Football League isn't worth it. There's golf to be played and tennis to be served up and other things to be done out there besides worryin' about a friggin' football game."----The prophet Sam Wyche

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              • #52
                Have the Bengals hire a handful of us to run the front office?

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                • #53
                  Yourself excepted naturally, but a group of Internet message board people, over people who have spent their working lives in the business? But then, why bother with this franchise? Why not take a real challenge and go fix the Brownies or the Rams?
                  "This game isn't worth it. The National Football League isn't worth it. There's golf to be played and tennis to be served up and other things to be done out there besides worryin' about a friggin' football game."----The prophet Sam Wyche

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Le Tigre View Post
                    Yourself excepted naturally, but a group of Internet message board people, over people who have spent their working lives in the business? But then, why bother with this franchise? Why not take a real challenge and go fix the Brownies or the Rams?
                    Well yes, to me experience is a lousy indicator of success. In the modern era, coaches win the Super Bowl within five years of being hired with their new team. Otherwise, it will never happen, the exception being Bill Cowher but he did take the Steelers to the Super Bowl within five years losing to Dallas. All of these "money ball" statistical analysis can plug and chug algorithms all day long, they forget psychology, organization, and motivation.

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                    • #55
                      It is an interesting theorem. I suppose if we can elect Presidents with no experience, this can be done also.
                      "This game isn't worth it. The National Football League isn't worth it. There's golf to be played and tennis to be served up and other things to be done out there besides worryin' about a friggin' football game."----The prophet Sam Wyche

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Le Tigre View Post
                        And call me overly optimistic,
                        While I agree with a lot of your points in this thread, I would call that overly optimistic. I didn't see anything from Fisher that made me think his ceiling is any better than average. I thought he was overrated coming out of college and I still think that, and Ogbuehi is clearly shell shocked and lacks confidence. And Bodine needs to be replaced. Nobody had him has higher than a 6th round pick the year we traded up in the 4th round to get him, and now I'm thinking there's a reason for that.

                        What worries me the most is Lewis's consistent comments that our roster is just fine. Peko is fine, let's resign him. The guys just need to play better. Right. The other 31 teams can say that too. No, it isn't fine, and we need a game changer, like a McCarron trade, to jump start it. In the latest Hobson column he actually says the other teams don't have better rosters, they just happened to play better on the days we played them. I've been a Marvin defender for a long time, but what a joke.

                        And I'm no longer banking on the idea that Whit will re-sign. What if he sees the same writing on the wall that Guenther sees that made him ask to interview in Washington? An over the hill coach who coddles veterans.

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Lewdog View Post
                          You can't blame a team for drafting poorly because of freak injuries in training camp... Jesus dude. You going to blame the front office for the weather next?
                          What does "blame" have to do with what I said? I talked about the effects those rookies had on the team. Their impact was ALL negative. There's no way around it. Calling them useless or even forfeiting those picks would have been better to this point, than having them "on the team".

                          But even beyond that, take a look into history and see what teams have drafted more "lost" 1st / 2nd round picks than Cincinnati. Just to name a few ... Kijana, Perry, Pollack, Ogboui, WJIII, Billings ...
                          ///M
                          The most powerful letter in the alphabet

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by CinciFan View Post

                            But even beyond that, take a look into history and see what teams have drafted more "lost" 1st / 2nd round picks than Cincinnati. Just to name a few ... Kijana, Perry, Pollack, Ogboui, WJIII, Billings ...
                            How about Cleveland? Manziel, Gilbert (who most people forget was picked before Manziel,) Brady Quinn, Brandon Weeden, Trent Richardson, Cameron Irving, Barkevious Mingo, and that list goes on and on. The only difference is that Cleveland cuts them loose early on. (But they have no patience with coaches, either.)
                            "She's a Browns fan. She doesn't know anything about the playoffs." Chuck Todd referring to Kelly O'Donnell on "Meet the Press"

                            "The Browns are so low in national esteem that they troll the football equivalent of the thermal vents at the bottom of the Marianas Trench in the Pacific. This is the deepest point on the surface of the earth. Strange creatures live there and also in Berea." Bill Livingston-The Plain Dealer

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by CinciFan View Post
                              What does "blame" have to do with what I said? I talked about the effects those rookies had on the team. Their impact was ALL negative. There's no way around it. Calling them useless or even forfeiting those picks would have been better to this point, than having them "on the team".

                              But even beyond that, take a look into history and see what teams have drafted more "lost" 1st / 2nd round picks than Cincinnati. Just to name a few ... Kijana, Perry, Pollack, Ogboui, WJIII, Billings ...
                              Now you're just being a prick. Ogbuehi is not gone, WJIII is not gone, and Billings isn't gone. WTF is wrong with you? I think Ogbuehi has been a bust so far, but he was a first round pick and has three more years left on his rookie contract. WJIII and Billings suffered freak injuries. You don't draft thinking that a guy is going to tear his pectoral muscle in training camp or the other guy is going to hurt his leg. Billings is a first round talent the Bengals got in the 4th... HE WAS A 4TH ROUND PICK! For fuc ks sake quit being so negative on this past year's draft class, the guys not hurt played more this past year than Marvin has let rookies play almost the entire time he's been here outside of Dalton and Green.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                We all love to bash this organization, but there is zero reason to bash the overall drafting of players for the past number of years. the scouting department has put a lot of quality players in the coaches hands, comparable to nay team in the league really. The draft room is NOT the issue with this teams inability to get over the playoff game hump.
                                Marvin Lewis - the Clapping Clown.

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