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  • #76
    Originally posted by I_C_DeadPeople View Post
    He led the way that made him more money. The cap rollover provisions were brilliant - money in his pocket year after year. He is useful to the owners in those negotiations because never see the long term ramifications. But he does nothing from a franchise standpoint to add value to the league.
    But the point is he lead the way for the other owners. He did not ride their coattails - can't have it both ways

    Comment


    • #77
      Originally posted by NCStripes View Post
      But the point is he lead the way for the other owners. He did not ride their coattails - can't have it both ways
      I can actually. The other owners drive the REVENUE of the league up that he benefits from. He has saved them all money on the salary cap side. He is basically their nerd accountant. He is prudent financially (obviously) but does nothing to create revenue like the other owners.
      Marvin Lewis - the Clapping Clown.

      Comment


      • #78
        You always make it sound like all the "owners" are these super smart/innovative/rich leviathans that the poor Bengals are bound to like galley slaves.

        You never once ever mention (although all rich) nincompoops like Mark Davis, Zygi Wilf, Jed York, Stephen Ross, Dean Spanos, Stan Kroenke, the entire Ford family and Jimmy Haslam. Throw in even Dan Snyder, Bill Bidwell, and Jerry Jones too.

        Yes, let's take our leads from this group.

        Oh, here we go: please say something about playoff games, how much money they spend, and how they "try".
        "This game isn't worth it. The National Football League isn't worth it. There's golf to be played and tennis to be served up and other things to be done out there besides worryin' about a friggin' football game."----The prophet Sam Wyche

        Comment


        • #79
          Originally posted by Bengali View Post
          The draft, develop and retain philosophy without the retain part.
          but you can't put that ALL on the team (any team) because all they can do is make the offers, they can't hold a gun to the guys head and make him sign it.

          all indications are (and by indications I mean Dave Lapham inside info), the team tried to get Zeitler signed when the Steelers locked up DeCastro only to be turned down simply because he thought he could play out his contract and then get more on the open market....it was a gamble, but one that paid off for him in the end....how is that on the Bengals?
          Last edited by spicoli; 03-18-2017, 11:50 AM.
          potential targets for Bengals #1 overall pick in 2018:
          QB's- Sam Darnold, Josh Rosen, Josh Allen, Mason Rudolf
          OT's- Orlando Brown, Connor Williams, Mike McGlinchey

          Comment


          • #80
            Originally posted by spicoli View Post
            but you can't put that ALL on the team because all they can do is make the offers, they can't hold a gun to the guys head and make him sign it.

            all indications are (and by indications I mean Dave Lapham inside info), the team tried to get Zeitler signed when the Steelers locked up DeCastro only to be turned down simply because he thought he could play out his contract and then get more on the open market....it was a gamble, but one that paid off for him in the end....how is that on the Bengals?
            True enough but if the Bengals tried to sign Zietler for say $8M per year why have they not now spent that money on a replacement? I think most here understand all teams have a cap and you will lose good players but you can also sign good players from other teams. We handcuff ourselves by (a) not spending TO the cap and (b) not using the ability to push cap monies forward. In this model, we will continually lose more good players and never make a push forward.
            Marvin Lewis - the Clapping Clown.

            Comment


            • #81
              Originally posted by Le Tigre View Post
              You always make it sound like all the "owners" are these super smart/innovative/rich leviathans that the poor Bengals are bound to like galley slaves.

              You never once ever mention (although all rich) nincompoops like Mark Davis, Zygi Wilf, Jed York, Stephen Ross, Dean Spanos, Stan Kroenke, the entire Ford family and Jimmy Haslam. Throw in even Dan Snyder, Bill Bidwell, and Jerry Jones too.

              Yes, let's take our leads from this group.

              Oh, here we go: please say something about playoff games, how much money they spend, and how they "try".
              No doubt a lot of the owners are meddling morons. Mikey has done them all a favor by controlling their spending habits via a better cap system on the last CBA. My point was that teams like the Pats, Steelers, Raiders and Cowboys and Packers are the teams that are driving the NFL value higher. Mikey contributes nothing to do this. If he actually cared about winning and being in championship contention over time we could be one of the teams that were considered in tjhis group.
              Marvin Lewis - the Clapping Clown.

              Comment


              • #82
                Originally posted by I_C_DeadPeople View Post
                True enough but if the Bengals tried to sign Zietler for say $8M per year why have they not now spent that money on a replacement?
                like who though? I've yet to see anyone out there that fits the criteria....all I've seen are a bunch of guys that fit the mold of the players we already have here waiting their turn.

                like I said in an earlier post, offer these guys a fair deal to get them locked up before they can hit FA and if they reject it, trade them off....that's really the only way a team can get any real assurances.
                potential targets for Bengals #1 overall pick in 2018:
                QB's- Sam Darnold, Josh Rosen, Josh Allen, Mason Rudolf
                OT's- Orlando Brown, Connor Williams, Mike McGlinchey

                Comment


                • #83
                  Originally posted by I_C_DeadPeople View Post
                  My point was that teams like the Pats, Steelers, Raiders and Cowboys and Packers are the teams that are driving the NFL value higher.
                  great, you just named 5 teams out of 32.

                  and how in the hell can the Packers and Steelers be driving the NFL value higher when they use the EXACT same business model that the Bengals do?

                  maybe Ben Rapistberger and Aaron Rodgers help drive it up but the front offices of those teams surely don't.
                  potential targets for Bengals #1 overall pick in 2018:
                  QB's- Sam Darnold, Josh Rosen, Josh Allen, Mason Rudolf
                  OT's- Orlando Brown, Connor Williams, Mike McGlinchey

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    And Mark Davis is the chief nincompoop. How do the Raiders drive anything?

                    Of course, like Jerry's franchise, there is always the name recognition. Despite any other shortcomings, that would still equate to a bunch of money.
                    "This game isn't worth it. The National Football League isn't worth it. There's golf to be played and tennis to be served up and other things to be done out there besides worryin' about a friggin' football game."----The prophet Sam Wyche

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Originally posted by spicoli View Post
                      but you can't put that ALL on the team (any team) because all they can do is make the offers, they can't hold a gun to the guys head and make him sign it.

                      all indications are (and by indications I mean Dave Lapham inside info), the team tried to get Zeitler signed when the Steelers locked up DeCastro only to be turned down simply because he thought he could play out his contract and then get more on the open market....it was a gamble, but one that paid off for him in the end....how is that on the Bengals?
                      In the case of Zietler I don't put it on the Bengals. I wouldn't pay him 12 million either (although I would echo the point of whoever it was above who questioned why we'd draft a G in the first round if we don't pay them. Zeitler said himself that he was told the day he was drafted that he'd only play through his first contract here. It wasn't clear whether he meant the Bengals told him that or his agent did, but the fact that we picked a guy who we wouldn't re-sign if he lived up to his first round status just doesn't make sense. But I digress.) But I would certainly give Whitworth the deal the Rams did. An when we lost him I'd give Burkhead more than what the Pats did, and just move him up the depth chart atop Hill.

                      I get that we offered Marvin Jones the same as the Lions did, and we couldn't make him stay. But once we lost him did we pivot immediately to Sanu, or did we just say hey, comp picks are awesome, let's replace them with a 2nd round rookie, and maybe we'll add a few waver-wire quality backs ups at the end of the 4th and 5th round next year? Nothing against Boyd, but we could've brought back Sanu, and used that pick elsewhere. That's building the team, not being on this ridiculous hamster wheel all the time.

                      I'm thinking of cases like losing Jonathan Joseph. We could've been more competitive there.

                      It's frustrating that the ONLY player we've retained this year is Kirkpatrick, and Hobson keeps explaining how great a third and fifth round pick would be. I'd rather have Whit. Had we kept Whit, we probably still would've added Andre, but we would've cut jones and/or Maualugua. Fine. So the question is, why don't we cut them anyway, and sign a guy like Jonathan Hankins? Because then we have to wave goodbye to a fifth round pick in 2018! It's the fact that we'd rather roll with Pat Sims than Hankins (in tandem with Billings) because we think we can just roll players on cheap, rookie contracts through the roster on four year cycles, let them walk, compile more picks, and think we're going to win that way.

                      Sure I got off the original point somewhat, but there's no doubt that we have a hard time keeping talent around here.

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Originally posted by Bengali View Post
                        Nothing against Boyd, but we could've brought back Sanu, and used that pick elsewhere.
                        I don't get that line of thought either, what did Sanu give this team that Boyd or Lafell didn't?

                        they clearly made Jones a priority and tried to make it happen, he just chose to leave for his own reasons.....Sanu though, I don't think was ever part of the plan because he was really just a guy here, nothing special and absolutely 110% not even close to being worth what he ended up getting in ATL.

                        I'm perfectly fine with how it all played out actually, looking back.....I'd even go as far as calling that one a win for the Bengals.

                        but we would've cut jones and/or Maualugua. Fine. So the question is, why don't we cut them anyway, and sign a guy like Jonathan Hankins?
                        I guarantee you that Hankins or not, or any other outside FA, those two will absolutely be cut before the start of TC....neither one have any relevance as to what is going on at the present moment.
                        potential targets for Bengals #1 overall pick in 2018:
                        QB's- Sam Darnold, Josh Rosen, Josh Allen, Mason Rudolf
                        OT's- Orlando Brown, Connor Williams, Mike McGlinchey

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Originally posted by spicoli View Post
                          great, you just named 5 teams out of 32.

                          and how in the hell can the Packers and Steelers be driving the NFL value higher when they use the EXACT same business model that the Bengals do?

                          maybe Ben Rapistberger and Aaron Rodgers help drive it up but the front offices of those teams surely don't.
                          How many buy Steelers gear and Packers gear compared to the Bengals? Which teams are more watched on TV? Which teams have more fan followers outside their cities? In that regard, the Bengals are as lowly as the Lions. It is a joke to say we have the same business model as the Steelers and Packers - Their business models are built on winning which builds a fan following for decades. Our model is seen ans a losing team and the 4 straight playoff egg layings have PROMOTED that perception, made it worse. When I talk football with another NFL fan i these days it is always the same 'doesn't matter if the Bengals make the playoffs, they will choke first game'. If Mikey actually emulated the Steelers/Packers he would have built an organization that can win and make money in the current NFL system. Packers make $20M per year or so PLUS their franchise has a high value. That is another thing the tree sloth is clueless on - if the team has a winning tradition and a large fan base, the team itself is worth more money. In the last Forbes listing, the Packers are worth $2.35B, the Steelers $2.23B and the Bengals are at $1.65B. So the Steelers are worth $580 Million more than the Bengals but no worries because Mikey 'saves' $10M per year in salary cap. As per usual, Mikey cannot see the forest for the trees. In sports, you build a BRAND by investing in the team. Mikey simply looks at year to year profits. There is no plan, master plan, grand plan, marketing plan or brand strategy. You can believe otherwise but the teams values reflect that. For all his penny pinching, he is actually not increasing the value of the team nearly as much as others. This is mismanagement of the team brand itself which is where the true value of the NFL team is.

                          I have been and still am at the executive level in business, not bragging just saying, but when you build a Company and a brand you do not do what Mikey does. The Pats are worth $3.4B but prior to Kraft buying I am sure they were close to what the Bengals were worth. But Kraft built the team and the brand.

                          http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2...nfl-franchises
                          Marvin Lewis - the Clapping Clown.

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            put Ben Rapistberger or Aaron rodgers on this same Bengals team over the last 6 years and then talk to me about "perception".......just sayin.


                            The Pats are worth $3.4B but prior to Kraft buying I am sure they were close to what the Bengals were worth. But Kraft built the team and the brand.
                            actually I think most would argue that Tom Brady and Bill Belicheck built that brand....not Robert Kraft.
                            potential targets for Bengals #1 overall pick in 2018:
                            QB's- Sam Darnold, Josh Rosen, Josh Allen, Mason Rudolf
                            OT's- Orlando Brown, Connor Williams, Mike McGlinchey

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Originally posted by spicoli View Post
                              put Ben Rapistberger or Aaron rodgers on this same Bengals team over the last 6 years and then talk to me about "perception".......just sayin.




                              actually I think most would argue that Tom Brady and Bill Belicheck built that brand....not Robert Kraft.
                              Who hired Belickek and lets him run the show? You have completely missed the point.
                              Marvin Lewis - the Clapping Clown.

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Originally posted by I_C_DeadPeople View Post
                                Who hired Belickek and lets him run the show? You have completely missed the point.
                                he completely lucked out with both Belicheat and Brady.....Belicheat had sucked at every stop before he got to NE and Brady was picked in the 6th round and only got his chance because of a cheapshot on Drew Bledsoe.

                                trust me I'm not saying that he hasn't been good, I understand what that franchise is valued at, but there was definitely a lot of luck involved early on for them....without completely lucking into the two B's, there's no brand to build.
                                potential targets for Bengals #1 overall pick in 2018:
                                QB's- Sam Darnold, Josh Rosen, Josh Allen, Mason Rudolf
                                OT's- Orlando Brown, Connor Williams, Mike McGlinchey

                                Comment

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