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Thread: Opponents Watch 2016

  1. #41
    TRUE Conservative CinciFan's Avatar
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    Again, I'm not saying he sucks. He's a good QB. But he's not nearly the best ever and even a generous evaluation doesn't even put him tops of current players.

  2. #42
    spicoli's Avatar
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    Ok then, I don't know what to tell ya.
    “We are not going in circles, we are going upwards. The path is a spiral; we have already climbed many steps.” --Hermann Hesse, Siddhartha

  3. #43
    Reggie Nelson's job hunting just got even tougher, Browns released Donte Whitner. So that means another veteran free agent safety on the market.

  4. #44
    Sith Lord ralphmtsu's Avatar
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    Nelson will find a job before Whitner.

    Also, Brady is best QB I've seen. He has done it consistently with no name WRs-- especially early in his career. Only true to receivers he has had were Moss and Gronk. The rest were role players like Welker, Patton, Edleman, Amendola, etc. All the other great QBs had top notch WRs. Marino had Duper and Clayton. Manning had Wayne and Harrison. Nobody has done more with less than Brady.
    Don't underestimate the power of the Dark Side!

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by ralphmtsu View Post
    Nelson will find a job before Whitner.

    Also, Brady is best QB I've seen. He has done it consistently with no name WRs-- especially early in his career. Only true to receivers he has had were Moss and Gronk. The rest were role players like Welker, Patton, Edleman, Amendola, etc. All the other great QBs had top notch WRs. Marino had Duper and Clayton. Manning had Wayne and Harrison. Nobody has done more with less than Brady.
    I agree and I would add he plays better in tough games, he is a leader and he has put in the time to hone his craft. You can always look at a great QB, like Montana and ask if he would have been great without Walsh, or Bradshaw if he was drafted by the Saints - impossible to guess, you can only say this or that player was great within his environment. No doubt Bill B and Brady go hand in hand, but they are one of the best if not THE best HC/QB combos ever.
    Marvin Lewis - the Clapping Clown.

  6. #46
    Administrator Super Cat's Avatar
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    Pressure!!! Brady is a great QB when he isn't pressured and much less when he is. With most QB's it doesn't matter who the receivers are if you aren't pressured. You find the open man. Brady was a short game QB. Get rid of ball quickly. that is why he had receivers like Welker, Edelman and Amendola who could run after the catch. Plus good TE's with Gronkowski, Watson and Hernadez. Moss was just another added attraction.
    When Brady is pressured he isn't that great. As seen against the Giants and Denver in past playoffs. This is the reason I'm not worried about Dalton and Bengals this year. Protect Dalton who is doing better with short game lately. Protect him and he can become a great QB. Don't and he will looked lost.

  7. #47
    Josh Gordon failed another drug test..lol..Josh meet Odell...

    Edit - and it looks like Gordon is living with Manziel...oh the laughs those Browns provide us
    Marvin Lewis - the Clapping Clown.

  8. #48
    spicoli's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I_C_DeadPeople View Post
    Josh Gordon failed another drug test..lol..Josh meet Odell...
    and he's also apparently living with Johnny Foosball right now lol.....yeah that'll work out well
    “We are not going in circles, we are going upwards. The path is a spiral; we have already climbed many steps.” --Hermann Hesse, Siddhartha

  9. #49
    The new front office executives hired by the Browns this offseason come from an analytics background, led by new chief strategy officer Paul DePodesta, who was an important figure in Moneyball and a longtime baseball analytics guru.

    But the Browns’ new head coach does not come from an analytics background, and a new ESPN Magazine profile of DePodesta suggests that coach Hue Jackson is likely to clash with the analytics people in Cleveland. The profile quotes a former NFL executive describing Jackson as “a very bad fit” for the approach DePodesta wants to take.

    That executive also said Jackson’s coaching staff will not be on board with the analytics department’s decision making, and predicted that there will be fireworks in the draft room.

    “It’s not just Hue Jackson,” the former executive said. “When data overrides gut, the majority of his coaching staff will all be there screaming, ‘What the f— are these computer guys doing? They don’t understand football, they don’t understand the locker room. They’re killing us.'”

    For his part, Jackson has said there’s a process and a plan in Cleveland and he’s on board with it. But if the Browns struggle this season, questions will surely be raised about whether the analytics approach is in fundamental conflict with Jackson’s traditional football approach.
    Marvin Lewis - the Clapping Clown.

  10. #50
    Sith Lord ralphmtsu's Avatar
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    I hate Moneyball and analytics. It is NOT a way to win a championship. It is more like a way for nerd fans to interject their love of stats in a way that brings nothing to the table. Baseball sucks with all these "new" stats such as WAR, etc. I stick with traditional stats Wins/Losses, Batting Avg, ERA, RBIs, etc. Also, gut is a much bigger factor to consider over contrived stats. It is as if these nerds are trying to quantify gut instinct but fail miserably.
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  11. #51
    TRUE Conservative CinciFan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ralphmtsu View Post
    I hate Moneyball and analytics. It is NOT a way to win a championship. It is more like a way for nerd fans to interject their love of stats in a way that brings nothing to the table. Baseball sucks with all these "new" stats such as WAR, etc. I stick with traditional stats Wins/Losses, Batting Avg, ERA, RBIs, etc. Also, gut is a much bigger factor to consider over contrived stats. It is as if these nerds are trying to quantify gut instinct but fail miserably.
    Said one cave man to another, when the second one had devised a method of determining quantity through counting.

    Yesterday's "art" or "gut" is today's science.

  12. #52
    Analytics are a tool, another tool for teams to use to evaluate players. Some call it advanced statistics or metrics. Call it whatever, it has it's place. Information of all kinds has to be used to be successful, especially in a salary cap system where every 'edge' can be of critical importance. The original Moneyball Oakland A's used it to compete against richer teams so that is an attempt to level the playing field. For teams in sports with hard salary caps - particularly NFL and the NHL, the advanced statistics and analysis can give one team an edge over another. The Browns may be going to far with it in terms of scouting and such, we will have to see on that note.
    Marvin Lewis - the Clapping Clown.

  13. #53
    Individual stats are easier to evaluate in MLB. Football is a different story altogether.
    Only users lose drugs

  14. #54
    Sith Lord ralphmtsu's Avatar
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    I'm not knocking stats. Hell, I'm one of those nerds trying to quantify my gut feeling, but to fire scouts in order to rely on analytics is absurd. You need scouts to provide the data points necessary to build your database. One of my all time heroes is Gil Brandt. He pioneered the use of computers in the scouting process. The Cowboys had one of the best scouting departments b/c is was robust and their reports fed data into the computers. I just don't care for the shenanigans of saying it is okay to get ride of one player b/c his contract is too large and should be traded for unproven draft picks. This is especially true if you have no scouting department to provide reports on potential draftees.
    Don't underestimate the power of the Dark Side!

  15. #55
    When a trade involves draft picks, there is then by default two parts to the trade. (1) Was the trade good? (2) Did you use the picks well. For example, the trade of Carson was a great trade in terms of value especially considering he was no longer playing here. The second part becomes, did we use the picks well.

    An ralph is right, if a team has a lousy scouting staff, then the second part of every trade will fail.

    To me, advanced analytics probably plays more of a role with current roster players. In the draft, young, physically immature players have to be 'projected' into what they will be in the NFL. There is a LOT of art and skill in that.

    In the NHL, advances stats such as Corsi are used far more to evaluate players already in the league, not so much for 17 year old draftees. Our team, Winnipeg Jets, have the deepest young talent pool in the NHL right now - moreso because we have the largest and best scouting staff in the league. The team is very smart in putting more money in that then in overpriced free agents. Although the NHL has a salary cap we are still a small market team and remain in the bottom half of cap spenders. But because we draft well,we can build from the ground up with great scouting and then add pieces via free agency, pieces that fit by using those advanced stats.
    Marvin Lewis - the Clapping Clown.

  16. #56
    Administrator Super Cat's Avatar
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    Watch out for Titans with 6 picks in first 76 spots
    And the Los Angeles Rams are now on the clock. The NFL has to be eating this up.
    NFL.com's Ian Rapoport first reported (and the Tennessee Titans confirmed) that the Rams have acquired the first pick in the 2016 NFL draft from the Titans. It's a bold, fascinating move, and it indicates that the Rams will land a quarterback at No. 1.
    The league's newly relocated team is not wasting time making waves on the west coast, returning to L.A. for the first time since 1995. And giving Case Keenum a little competition, too.
    [Follow Yahoo Sports draft expert Eric Edholm on Facebook and Twitter]

    If early indications are to be believed, the Rams are favoring drafting North Dakota State's Carson Wentz over Cal's Jared Goff. They're roundly considered to be the top two QB prospects in this class, although Memphis' Paxton Lynch was a player the Rams also have studied closely.
    Here's the swapping of picks:
    The Titans resisted trade offers for the No. 2 overall pick last year, selecting quarterback Marcus Mariota. It appears to be a good move now, as Mariota — even in an injury-plagued rookie season — showed promise. Drafting him also has allowed the Titans to target other positions of need.
    Resetting the boards for this draft, the Titans now have:
    1st round — No. 15 overall
    2nd round — No. 33
    2nd round — No. 43 (from Rams)
    2nd round — No. 45 (from Rams)
    3rd round — No. 64
    3rd round — No. 76 (from Rams)
    5th round — No. 140
    6th round — No. 193 (from Falcons)
    7th round — No. 222
    What an unbelievable haul by first-year general manager Jon Robinson, who is now running the Titans. They now control this draft, with six of the first 76 picks in the draft. Want to make a deal? They're apparently your first call. They have needs all over — offensive line, defensive line, wide receiver, secondary — and can address all of them this year. Plus, they're loaded with the Rams' first- and third-rounders in 2017, which sets them up beautifully for the future.
    The Rams now have:
    1st round — No. 1 overall (from Titans)
    4th round — No. 110
    4th round — No. 113
    6th round — No. 177 (from Titans)
    6th round — No. 190

  17. #57
    Great chance for the Titans to build a winner given they already have a future QB. What is the history of drafting by Robinson? I would love for our staff or the Seahawks staff to have this pick haul, but is he a good GM?
    Marvin Lewis - the Clapping Clown.

  18. #58
    Good article on Jon Robinson, even if it is written by Peter King:

    http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2016/03/01/t...aft-first-pick
    "This game isn't worth it. The National Football League isn't worth it. There's golf to be played and tennis to be served up and other things to be done out there besides worryin' about a friggin' football game."----The prophet Sam Wyche

  19. #59
    Administrator Super Cat's Avatar
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    Robinson said early in March that it would take a kings ransom for someone to get the #1 pick. He got what he asked.

  20. #60
    Funny stat on Jeff Fisher:

    Sure, the Rams gave up a lot. It added up to two first-round picks, two second-round picks, and two third-round picks. And it will all be worth it if the Rams finally find a true starting quarterback. Snead and especially Fisher were working on borrowed time in Los Angeles. Fisher was the first coach since Dave Shula with the 1996 Bengals to get a fifth season as a head coach following four straight losing years.
    Marvin Lewis - the Clapping Clown.

  21. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by I_C_DeadPeople View Post
    Great chance for the Titans to build a winner given they already have a future QB. What is the history of drafting by Robinson? I would love for our staff or the Seahawks staff to have this pick haul, but is he a good GM?
    Well if Dorian Green-Beckham can stay clean and Justin Hunter can produce, Mariota has guys to throw to, he just needs a line and a good back. Sanky has not panned out.

  22. #62
    Sith Lord ralphmtsu's Avatar
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    Eagles just traded up to the Browns #2 slot in the draft. Browns get 2016 #7 overall, Philly's 3rd and 4th in 2016, and then future picks in 2017 and 2018.
    Don't underestimate the power of the Dark Side!

  23. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by ralphmtsu View Post
    Eagles just traded up to the Browns #2 slot in the draft. Browns get 2016 #7 overall, Philly's 3rd and 4th in 2016, and then future picks in 2017 and 2018.
    actually...

    Adam Schefter ‏@AdamSchefter 21m21 minutes ago
    Eagles get: 2016 1st RD (#2), 2017 4th RD.

    Browns get: 2016 1st RD (#8), 2016 3rd RD (#77), 2016 4th RD (#100), 2017 1st RD, 2018 2nd RD.

    So that's an extra third and fourth this year, another first next year, and an extra second rounder in 2018. That's a pretty good haul to just drop 6 spots. They can still get a good O-line anchor like Ronnie Stanley at the #8 spot.

  24. #64
    spicoli's Avatar
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    get ready for Zeke Elliott twice a year now.....
    “We are not going in circles, we are going upwards. The path is a spiral; we have already climbed many steps.” --Hermann Hesse, Siddhartha

  25. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by spicoli View Post
    get ready for Zeke Elliott twice a year now.....
    Nah, it just opens up the opportunity to trade Joe Thomas for sure this time, and then they can draft his replacement. They will then be able to come back and get Derrick Henry with their second round pick at the top of the next round.

  26. #66
    spicoli's Avatar
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    I think the only way Zeke doesn't end up in Cleveland now would be if Dallas takes him at 4.....which wouldn't really surprise me.
    “We are not going in circles, we are going upwards. The path is a spiral; we have already climbed many steps.” --Hermann Hesse, Siddhartha

  27. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Lewdog View Post
    actually...

    Adam Schefter ‏@AdamSchefter 21m21 minutes ago
    Eagles get: 2016 1st RD (#2), 2017 4th RD.

    Browns get: 2016 1st RD (#8), 2016 3rd RD (#77), 2016 4th RD (#100), 2017 1st RD, 2018 2nd RD.

    So that's an extra third and fourth this year, another first next year, and an extra second rounder in 2018. That's a pretty good haul to just drop 6 spots. They can still get a good O-line anchor like Ronnie Stanley at the #8 spot.
    This is a good trade for the Browns. Now they need to make good picks (or bad ones for Bengal fans lol). Now there are rumors they are looking at Paxton Lynch. Meanwhile they play RG3 I guess. But since they need so much depth, this is a good trade. Philly on the other hand, now is paying big money to Bradford, way too much for Chase Daniel and they will pay a ton for the #2 pick at QB.
    Marvin Lewis - the Clapping Clown.

  28. #68
    Sith Lord ralphmtsu's Avatar
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    For all the picks and maneuvering the Browns did (did someone in Cleveland pop Draft Day into the DVD player?), they ended up with shit IMHO. They took the lowest rated first round WR, kept trading down and got nothing but a bunch of fodder to fill their depleted roster. I see no rhyme nor reason to their draft other than stupid moneyball crap. FWIW, the Ravens (as usual) had a solid draft (so far). As for the Steelers, beating us in the playoffs cost them multiple players that we stole from them Gotta love that. My AFCN draft grades

    Ravens A
    Bengals A-
    Steelers C+
    Browns C (would be lower but sheer volume matters )
    Don't underestimate the power of the Dark Side!

  29. #69
    I didn't feel like starting a new thread so I'll put this here. I have PFT on my twitter and they posted this message earlier today:

    ProFootballTalk ‏@ProFootballTalk 26m26 minutes ago
    Hanging out in barn with my four childhood friends, Terry, John, Joe, Mike. See @StatsOnFire, I have friends.


    So I replied: Funny, I expected all your friends to be wearing Pittsburgh Steelers gear.


  30. #70
    I have my guess as to which one is you.

    What's with the panatela explosion?! Lol.
    "This game isn't worth it. The National Football League isn't worth it. There's golf to be played and tennis to be served up and other things to be done out there besides worryin' about a friggin' football game."----The prophet Sam Wyche

  31. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Le Tigre View Post
    I have my guess as to which one is you.

    What's with the panatela explosion?! Lol.
    Me? I'm not in that picture!

  32. #72
    Just to save you all from the click bait by Gil Brandt at NFL.com. I have no problem with Cincy being the top choice to NOT repeat as division champs, I don't even have a problem with his reasons for picking the Steelers. I just hate national media types when they try to assess teams. As a fan of these teams, you rarely learn anything from these "articles".

    1) Cincinnati Bengals
    Biggest threat in the AFC North: Pittsburgh Steelers

    This might be a bit of a surprise, since the Bengals won 12 games last year, including 10 of their first 12. And yes, they'll get quarterback Andy Dalton, who missed the last four games (including a wild-card loss to the Steelers) of the 2015 season due to a fractured thumb, back healthy. But they also lost quality receivers in Mohamed Sanu and Marvin Jones to free agency and -- perhaps even more importantly -- will have to replace former offensive coordinator Hue Jackson, now the Browns' head coach. Jackson was a very innovative and creative mind in Cincy, and he did a very good job. Thus, I expect this team to take a step back. But my pessimism regarding the Bengals' ability to hold on to the division has less to do with them and more to do with my confidence in Pittsburgh.

    The bottom line is, the Steelers have a very imposing set of triplets in quarterback Ben Roethlisberger, running back Le'Veon Bell and receiver Antonio Brown. When all three are healthy, this is easily the best team in the division. Of course, injuries to Big Ben and Brown in 2015 and Bell in 2014 and 2015 are exactly what have stopped Pittsburgh. I cannot believe that the Steelers will be so unlucky as to be sabotaged by the injury bug for a third year in a row. And so I am confident we'll see a new AFC North champ in 2016.
    I'm sure some here feel that Hue Jackson's loss will be a setback, from what I remember, most here were tired of his attempts every week to show off his play calling to pad his interviews with future employers. Zampese should do just fine.

    I doubt that Boyd and Core will contribute as much as Sanu and Jones did last year, but they should do more than both did in '12.
    Only users lose drugs

  33. #73
    Sith Lord ralphmtsu's Avatar
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    Browns cut Brian Hartline. Could be a good pick up.
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  34. #74
    Ravens lose three OTAs and get fined
    http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300...for-violations
    Only users lose drugs

  35. #75
    Sith Lord ralphmtsu's Avatar
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    Relatively meaningless. They lost OTAs in the past.
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  36. #76
    TRUE Conservative CinciFan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pre_hungover View Post
    Ravens lose three OTAs and get fined
    http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300...for-violations
    Whole thing is irrelevant.
    Action, penalty; all of it.

  37. #77
    Looks like the Ravens have one wasted draft pick!

    Baltimore Ravens wide receiver Breshad Perriman suffered a partially torn ACL in his left knee and will visit Dr. James Andrews on Monday to determine if he needs potential season-ending surgery, a source told ESPN's Adam Schefter and Jamison Hensley.

    Perriman missed last season, his first in the league, with a partially torn PCL in his right knee.

    http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/16...ially-torn-acl

  38. #78
    spicoli's Avatar
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    Jets DL Richardson suspended for season opener by NFL

    FLORHAM PARK, N.J. (AP) — New York Jets defensive lineman Sheldon Richardson has been suspended by the NFL for the first game of the 2016 regular season for violating the league's personal conduct policy.

    Richardson will be eligible to return to the Jets' active roster on Sept. 12 following the team's Sept. 11 opener against Cincinnati. But he can participate in all preseason practices and games.

    He pleaded guilty in January to resisting arrest after police clocked him driving at speeds as high as 143 mph in Missouri last July. Resisting arrest is listed by the NFL as a violation of the personal conduct policy.

    A St. Charles County judge sentenced Richardson to two years of probation and 100 hours of community service after he drove a 2014 Bentley Silver Spur at high speeds on an interstate near his offseason home.

    Richardson's guilty plea to the most serious offense will be wiped from his record if he successfully completes probation. He also pleaded guilty to speeding and running a red light and was fined. Two other traffic offenses were reduced to muffler violations to which he pleaded guilty.

    Richardson was accompanied by a 12-year-old relative and two male passengers when he was stopped. Police say they found a loaded semi-automatic handgun under a floor mat and detected a strong marijuana odor.

    He was not charged for the gun possession or marijuana, nor were his passengers charged.

    Richardson was suspended for the first four games last season for violating the league's substance abuse policy. He was the 2013 AP NFL Defensive Rookie of the Year.

    http://pro32.ap.org/article/jets-dl-...son-opener-nfl
    “We are not going in circles, we are going upwards. The path is a spiral; we have already climbed many steps.” --Hermann Hesse, Siddhartha

  39. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by spicoli View Post
    Jets DL Richardson suspended for season opener by NFL

    FLORHAM PARK, N.J. (AP) — New York Jets defensive lineman Sheldon Richardson has been suspended by the NFL for the first game of the 2016 regular season for violating the league's personal conduct policy.

    Richardson will be eligible to return to the Jets' active roster on Sept. 12 following the team's Sept. 11 opener against Cincinnati. But he can participate in all preseason practices and games.

    He pleaded guilty in January to resisting arrest after police clocked him driving at speeds as high as 143 mph in Missouri last July. Resisting arrest is listed by the NFL as a violation of the personal conduct policy.

    A St. Charles County judge sentenced Richardson to two years of probation and 100 hours of community service after he drove a 2014 Bentley Silver Spur at high speeds on an interstate near his offseason home.

    Richardson's guilty plea to the most serious offense will be wiped from his record if he successfully completes probation. He also pleaded guilty to speeding and running a red light and was fined. Two other traffic offenses were reduced to muffler violations to which he pleaded guilty.

    Richardson was accompanied by a 12-year-old relative and two male passengers when he was stopped. Police say they found a loaded semi-automatic handgun under a floor mat and detected a strong marijuana odor.

    He was not charged for the gun possession or marijuana, nor were his passengers charged.

    Richardson was suspended for the first four games last season for violating the league's substance abuse policy. He was the 2013 AP NFL Defensive Rookie of the Year.

    http://pro32.ap.org/article/jets-dl-...son-opener-nfl

    Smoking pot and driving 140 miles per hour with a loaded handgun on the floor and a 12 year old minor in the car ?

    They should have thrown the book at him for child-endangerment lone.

  40. #80
    Big news, Houston losses it's second round pick and starting Center Nick Martin (Go Irish!) to season ending ankle surgery.

    Browns traded waste of talent Mingo to Patriots for a 5th rounder, who needed someone to take the reps being missed by Ninkovich. Browns now have Two firsts, two seconds, and two fifth round picks next year.

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