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Thread: Marvin Lewis Reportedly To Be Fired Upon End Of Disappointing Season

  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by LimaBengal View Post
    You're bitter bias notwithstanding, they probably will win the SB again.

    You think all you need is cheating coaches, drunken owners and bribe money to win? lolololol

    Are you a defense attorney? lol

    Ask yourself why Ocho Cinco couldn't get off the bench in N.E.

    Ask yourself why small WRs with pedestrian speed can gain 1000 yards with the Pats.

    Ask yourself why their defense is rated near the top, annually, even while they cut great players for non-compliance.

    Brady may never have been great if he had gotten drafted by the Bengals or most any other team. The Patriots are the sum of their parts. They won 14 or 15 games one year with a backup QB who hadn't started a game since high school !! He left for FA and we never heard from again. It ain't ALL Brady.
    All of your deflecting statements aside, and especially after the events of yesterday, it IS all Tommy. Followed in very close order by the greatest coach in the history of the NFL (and his always fully-stocked assistants). He cheats, but he wins more from his brilliance. The owner is a drunken boob, but knows how to just supply the loot to get it done.

    There, it was said. Wonderful. Now, how do 31 other NFL franchises do the same thing? They don't. But you go ahead and bellyache and complain as to why it doesn't happen here. It would be reasonable, if it wasn't so grindingly outdated with the incessant '90's era reference points--when you know damn well it is nowhere like that.

    The Patriots' time will end...just like all dynasties end. There might be another Bellicheat and Tommy again sometime, but I haven't seen anything close in the present.
    "This game isn't worth it. The National Football League isn't worth it. There's golf to be played and tennis to be served up and other things to be done out there besides worryin' about a friggin' football game."----The prophet Sam Wyche

  2. #82
    Sith Lord ralphmtsu's Avatar
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    They don't cheat. They push the envelope. James T. Kirk beat the Kobiashi Maru because he pushed the envelope.
    Don't underestimate the power of the Dark Side!

  3. #83
    It is not often that you get that combination of brilliant coach and elite QB - obviously Belichick/Brady; Walsh/Montana. I would not even put Aikman/Johnson or Noll/Bradshaw up there becuase those 2 QB's were dimwits helped by great defenses and great offensive weapons. Perhaps Paul Brown/Otto Graham; Lombardi/Starr are close to the top as well. I always considered Montana/Walsh as the best combo simply becuase they were both brilliant football minds, but Belichick/Brady have topped them. ML/Dalton are...never mind..
    Marvin Lewis - the Clapping Clown.

  4. #84
    Like I said...none of the other 31 teams have anything remotely close at present.
    "This game isn't worth it. The National Football League isn't worth it. There's golf to be played and tennis to be served up and other things to be done out there besides worryin' about a friggin' football game."----The prophet Sam Wyche

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Le Tigre View Post
    All of your deflecting statements aside, and especially after the events of yesterday, it IS all Tommy. Followed in very close order by the greatest coach in the history of the NFL (and his always fully-stocked assistants). He cheats, but he wins more from his brilliance. The owner is a drunken boob, but knows how to just supply the loot to get it done.

    There, it was said. Wonderful. Now, how do 31 other NFL franchises do the same thing? They don't. But you go ahead and bellyache and complain as to why it doesn't happen here. It would be reasonable, if it wasn't so grindingly outdated with the incessant '90's era reference points--when you know damn well it is nowhere like that.

    The Patriots' time will end...just like all dynasties end. There might be another Bellicheat and Tommy again sometime, but I haven't seen anything close in the present.
    BS


    It isn't all Tommy. It's the system. They change personnel constantly adding and removing pieces that fit "the system" They have the same salary cap as us. They haven't had a top-5 pick since 1999 and only 2 top-10 picks since 1999. They draft near the bottom every year. The constantly find players that are intelligent and team-oriented and FIT the system.

    An Ocho Cinco could star and show off for years in Mike Brown's circus, but couldn't make the grade in Boston, where more is required.

    If the Patriots had drafted Carson Palmer and the Bengals had drafted Tom Brady - they both would probably be having near the same results.

    New England created Tom Brady - not the other way around. It starts in the Front Office and with the HC.

    Mike Brown has won ZERO playoff games in his tenure since his father died. 1000's of players have been through the roster. Loads of top 10 picks.

    You can bellyache all you want about the referees, the league, the media and all those other cheatin' teams all you want....but in the end, the Bengals can blame no one but themselves for their fortunes.

  6. #86
    Now it is you who,are all over the map. Not unprecedented, as your arguments tend to take long and winding non-connecting routes to the same subject: the denigration of the Bengals.

    For lack of a better description: if there were no New England Patriots, you would invent them.

    But let's not quibble: if this vaunted "system" has always been in place..then why isn't Steve Grogan in the HOF? Mike Holovak certainly would have had a hand in this "system" amirite? Victor Kiam would have had his imprints all over today's dynasty, correct? John Hannah?

    No, it comes back to the two people who--were they not uniquely connected at just the right moment in time and in just the same place--would not have done it. Remembering Billy the Brown and 6th-round Tommy buried on a depth chart.

    Talk about your interchangeable part "system" incessantly does not make it reality. Otherwise, Drew Bledsoe and Pete Carroll would have been hoisting trophies too.
    "This game isn't worth it. The National Football League isn't worth it. There's golf to be played and tennis to be served up and other things to be done out there besides worryin' about a friggin' football game."----The prophet Sam Wyche

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Le Tigre View Post
    Now it is you who,are all over the map. Not unprecedented, as your arguments tend to take long and winding non-connecting routes to the same subject: the denigration of the Bengals.

    For lack of a better description: if there were no New England Patriots, you would invent them.

    But let's not quibble: if this vaunted "system" has always been in place..then why isn't Steve Grogan in the HOF? Mike Holovak certainly would have had a hand in this "system" amirite? Victor Kiam would have had his imprints all over today's dynasty, correct? John Hannah?

    No, it comes back to the two people who--were they not uniquely connected at just the right moment in time and in just the same place--would not have done it. Remembering Billy the Brown and 6th-round Tommy buried on a depth chart.

    Talk about your interchangeable part "system" incessantly does not make it reality. Otherwise, Drew Bledsoe and Pete Carroll would have been hoisting trophies too.

    Not always. Never said "always", counselor. It started when Kroft bought the team.

    Same as the Bengals miring in mediocrity began when Mikey Brown assumed the helm.

    It all starts at the top.

    Your insinuation that Tommy boy could lead any roster of players to 5 Super Bowls is laughable. The fact that he has led 5 completely different Patriot rosters to championships supports my "great organization" argument. It is more than one coach and one player. That is just a sour grapes argument saying that the Pats got "lucky", otherwise, they would be just like the Bengals.

    Ridiculous.

  8. #88
    This is not rocket science. In any organization, the more elite people you have - be it the owner, the GM, the scouts, the coaches, the players - the higher the chances of success and sustained success. The top organizations - be it in sports of business look for top talent throughout the organization. The Pats in the NFL are the gold standard. Seattle is trying to be at the level and a few other teams are as well. Then you have the next level of teams that just like being in the mix or are incapable of seeing what moves they need to make to be elite. These great organizations are the sum of great parts. The Bengals are the sum of average parts, hence they remain average.
    Marvin Lewis - the Clapping Clown.

  9. #89
    I think you can take a little bit of truth to what everyone is saying here. Belichik was run out of Cleveland, was it because of the system Cleveland had in place or was it the players he had? Remember NE sucked for along time before Kraft and Bill took over. I think you have to chalk this dynasty up to the cosmos lining up perfectly for them to begin. What if Bledsoe had never gotten hurt, Cleveland shit canning Bill... I hate NE just as much as the next fan but I envy what they do player personel wise. Don't do your job, bye, bye!! Lima brings up a great point, they do so much with "over achieving" players. Why can their WRs get so much separation and find no name linemen and make them good players? WE have a very good team, but we are all over the map with them. To much worrying about upsetting the locker room and vets they think they should be loyal to, that perform sub par. That is the problem with this team. I bet you now, that we resign #58 and #94 because they are upstanding citizens and locker room guys, instead of sending the "Patriots" way of getting a message across. IF you aren't good enough to get this team to next level, we'll find someone else who will.....

  10. #90
    Re-signing Peko will be like ringing the bell "nothing has changed"
    Marvin Lewis - the Clapping Clown.

  11. #91
    Robert Kraft purchased the Pats when they were at their lowest value. Smart business guy. This was 1994. He has Bill Parcells already there. After 3 seasons, they are in the Super Bowl (they lost). Brilliant Bob-who could not take credit for hiring Parcells--decides he knows more about drafting players than Tuna, and overrules him on draft picks the following spring. Parcells leaves. He takes Bellichek with him. Pete Carroll comes in, Pete Carroll tanks. Bob decides he really isn't all that in the football evaluation thing, so he trades a first-round pick to the Jets, and brings Bellichek in (with the blessing and guidance of Parcells). Team tanks until a bad injury takes place, allowing that 6th Round guy to get in. Next year: first SB win...and on to dynasty we go.

    So..still want to hang on that Kraft is one of the 3 legs of that dynasty stool, or just along for the ride?
    "This game isn't worth it. The National Football League isn't worth it. There's golf to be played and tennis to be served up and other things to be done out there besides worryin' about a friggin' football game."----The prophet Sam Wyche

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by Le Tigre View Post
    Robert Kraft purchased the Pats when they were at their lowest value. Smart business guy. This was 1994. He has Bill Parcells already there. After 3 seasons, they are in the Super Bowl (they lost). Brilliant Bob-who could not take credit for hiring Parcells--decides he knows more about drafting players than Tuna, and overrules him on draft picks the following spring. Parcells leaves. He takes Bellichek with him. Pete Carroll comes in, Pete Carroll tanks. Bob decides he really isn't all that in the football evaluation thing, so he trades a first-round pick to the Jets, and brings Bellichek in (with the blessing and guidance of Parcells). Team tanks until a bad injury takes place, allowing that 6th Round guy to get in. Next year: first SB win...and on to dynasty we go.

    So..still want to hang on that Kraft is one of the 3 legs of that dynasty stool, or just along for the ride?
    Kind of proved my point. Kraft went out and did something, even if it took a few years. Brown has had control of this team for almost 30 years and just sat still with it. Lewis, changed the coulture somewhat but just hasn't brought the ultimate prize to Cincy nor will he ever. So yeah, as a fan for over 40 some years, I am along for the ride on this round about that I refuse to get in the right lane so I can get off...

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by Le Tigre View Post
    Thought I would read up on all of this supposed Urban-led "shakeup".

    Seems he didn't can anyone. The Offensive Coordinator--who also just happened to be the QB coach--left on his own accord to become...wait for it...Offensive Coordinator and QB coach at Texas. And where another former OSU Offensive Coordinator (and sorely missed) happens to be the HC.

    So the newbies who come in: is one of Chip's staff jettisoned with him at SF (QB coach), and a former HC of Indiana for offensive coordinator.

    So while the optics would strive to show some magnanimous changes to not be "status quo", the reality is that there was going to be a need to fill both positions anyway.

    Not that any of this still matters in terms of the Bengals, but interesting to look a little deeper.
    From my perspective as an OSU fan in Columbus that's not quite how it happed. Yes, the QB coach left for Texas and there can be some question as to whether it was "suggest" by Urban first that he dust off his resume, but the two changes were made basically simultaneously. There was no job search for a QB coach, which tells me Urban had his guy lined up.

    But in the case of the OC, it was in the news weeks before his actual hire that he was going to be named to that position. It only became official after the existing OC found his job. It's pretty clear that Meyer was going to make that change and gave the incumbent time to find a new position rather than "firing" him.

    As for whether or not it's an apt comparison or not, I obviously believe it is. There are also college teams that go year after year of mediocrity without making a change. Yes, OSU is not hurting for cash which can make things like this easier. But you can't convince me that the reason Lewis is still in Cincy is because the Bengals just don't have the resources to bring someone else in. They can, but choose not to either because they are satisfied with how they are now or that they will get better if left alone.
    Sto Pro Veritate

  14. #94
    Administrator Super Cat's Avatar
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    Let's get in all straighten out. It wasn't Kraft, It wasn't Brady. It was Belichick that changed New England. Belichick is a top student of the game. He is a football historian and his number one study was Paul Brown. If you know Paul Brown, you see the same type football as Brown ran from the 40's all the way to the mid 70's. Brown would change the game every game.
    In 1950 the Browns enter the NFL with 3 other teams from the AAFC. The Browns first game was against NFL champion Philadelphia Eagles. The game matching the two champions from the two different leagues. the Eagles were heavy favorites 70,000 fans crammed into Municipal Stadium to watch the contest. The Browns won the game 35-10. After Greasy Neale the Eagles head coach commented sure they can defeat us with that fancy passing stuff but how could they do in a physical game, later that year they played again and the Brown's never recorded a pass and again defeated the Eagles 13-7 after that year Neale retired.

    Brown used the double tight ends, receiving running backs and invented the draw play.
    Belichicks words on Paul Brown http://bengalsjungle.com/forum/conte...chick-on-Brown

  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by Girevik View Post
    From my perspective as an OSU fan in Columbus that's not quite how it happed. Yes, the QB coach left for Texas and there can be some question as to whether it was "suggest" by Urban first that he dust off his resume, but the two changes were made basically simultaneously. There was no job search for a QB coach, which tells me Urban had his guy lined up.

    But in the case of the OC, it was in the news weeks before his actual hire that he was going to be named to that position. It only became official after the existing OC found his job. It's pretty clear that Meyer was going to make that change and gave the incumbent time to find a new position rather than "firing" him.

    As for whether or not it's an apt comparison or not, I obviously believe it is. There are also college teams that go year after year of mediocrity without making a change. Yes, OSU is not hurting for cash which can make things like this easier. But you can't convince me that the reason Lewis is still in Cincy is because the Bengals just don't have the resources to bring someone else in. They can, but choose not to either because they are satisfied with how they are now or that they will get better if left alone.
    I read the Dispatch too and, like I said, the thing was an optics shift. I don't know or quite honestly care enough to know whether these two new guys are the cat's ass in terms of being able to get JT Barrett in a position to complete passes. I do know that Herman--who could actually squeeze something out of Cardale Jones--thought enough of Beck to give him the top job running his offense at Texas over any other of his candidates. In fact, he already had a short list of candidates in place in mid-December--well before OSU's Playoff Game--and Beck wasn't on it. Stuff hits the fan, and all of a sudden, Herman drops his other candidates and goes after Beck? Maybe Urban told him to take a hike, and he did. We don't really know. I guess the thought process you have that benevolent Urban gave poor downtrodden Tom Beck enough time to scrape up some piddly job before he crapcanned him, just doesn't add up.
    "This game isn't worth it. The National Football League isn't worth it. There's golf to be played and tennis to be served up and other things to be done out there besides worryin' about a friggin' football game."----The prophet Sam Wyche

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by sandwedge View Post
    I think you can take a little bit of truth to what everyone is saying here. Belichik was run out of Cleveland, was it because of the system Cleveland had in place or was it the players he had? Remember NE sucked for along time before Kraft and Bill took over. I think you have to chalk this dynasty up to the cosmos lining up perfectly for them to begin. What if Bledsoe had never gotten hurt, Cleveland shit canning Bill... I hate NE just as much as the next fan but I envy what they do player personel wise. Don't do your job, bye, bye!! Lima brings up a great point, they do so much with "over achieving" players. Why can their WRs get so much separation and find no name linemen and make them good players? WE have a very good team, but we are all over the map with them. To much worrying about upsetting the locker room and vets they think they should be loyal to, that perform sub par. That is the problem with this team. I bet you now, that we resign #58 and #94 because they are upstanding citizens and locker room guys, instead of sending the "Patriots" way of getting a message across. IF you aren't good enough to get this team to next level, we'll find someone else who will.....
    The canning of Belichick was done by the newly formed Ravens in 1996 after the move. It was a PR move to hire the old Colt's coach Ted Marchibroda. Belichick had turned the Browns around and they were 11-5 in 1994 and won a playoff game. They were mentioned in a lot of publications as AFC favorites for the 1995 Super Bowl. They started 3-1 i believe in 1995 and then the story broke about the move. I think we can all be happy that Bill didn't keep his job after the move.

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by VOR View Post
    The canning of Belichick was done by the newly formed Ravens in 1996 after the move. It was a PR move to hire the old Colt's coach Ted Marchibroda. Belichick had turned the Browns around and they were 11-5 in 1994 and won a playoff game. They were mentioned in a lot of publications as AFC favorites for the 1995 Super Bowl. They started 3-1 i believe in 1995 and then the story broke about the move. I think we can all be happy that Bill didn't keep his job after the move.
    What sticks out in my mind about Belichick's time in Cleveland was his cutting of hometown boy, Bernie Kosar. Kosar had just been signed to a huge extension and Belichick, seeing what Browns fans couldn't was that Bernie just was not talented enough to be a starting QB in the NFL. That took guts. In reviewing this history, I looked up some stuff on BB on Wiki and found this slanted piece on Bernie Kosar:

    One of his most controversial moves was cutting quarterback Bernie Kosar after the 1993 season. Kosar was subsequently signed by the Dallas Cowboys, helping lead them to victory in Super Bowl XXVIII.
    Helped lead the Cowboys to a Super Bowl victory? He started one game and the Cowboys lost that game! He contributed next to nothing to the Cowboys winning the SB that year. Hilarious...

  18. #98
    That is hilarious. Bernie took one snap in that SB--a kneel down.

    I guess to say Bill was an all-knowing sage at that time is somewhat misleading. Even by 1992, Bernie was playing less than Tomczak...and by 1993 Vinny had taken over. It was more of a drawn out separation than a bolt from the blue.
    "This game isn't worth it. The National Football League isn't worth it. There's golf to be played and tennis to be served up and other things to be done out there besides worryin' about a friggin' football game."----The prophet Sam Wyche

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