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Thread: Will AJ McCarron be traded?

  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by I_C_DeadPeople View Post
    Romo would be better suited for a team that has some talent but has the QB as a large missing piece, NY may be considered that - not a bad team with a good QB. He is too old to do a rebuild IMO.
    Would you trade McCarron for Sheldon Richardson?

  2. #42
    Guy is a stud on the field, but off the field not so sure.
    Marvin Lewis - the Clapping Clown.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by I_C_DeadPeople View Post
    Guy is a stud on the field, but off the field not so sure.
    Could you imagine Richardson next to Geno??? That would be by far the best DT combo in the league.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Lewdog View Post
    Could you imagine Richardson next to Geno??? That would be by far the best DT combo in the league.
    Is he better than Peko?
    Marvin Lewis - the Clapping Clown.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Lewdog View Post
    Would you trade McCarron for Sheldon Richardson?
    Actually, no. I'd cut Maualuga and Adam Jones and use that money to sign a NT like Brandon Williams from Baltimore or Johnathan Hankins from NYG. And then I'd trade McCarron for picks, or something I couldn't get on the FA market. But, that's in a perfect world.

  6. #46
    Administrator Super Cat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I_C_DeadPeople View Post
    Is he better than Peko?
    Nobody is better than Peko.

  7. #47
    TRUE Conservative CinciFan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lewdog View Post
    We didn't get anyone? You can't discount getting WJIII and Billings just because of injuries.
    WHAT? As of right now, they were HARMFUL rather than helpful. We actually LOST by drafting them. Would have had SOMEONE who at least took hits & blocked / played snaps and hit someone, vs. expensive IR line items who contributed zero and added uncertainty.




    That happens and they'll be back.
    You have ZERO idea, and only hoping they'll ever play / matter. As of right now, they're utter disasters. "It happens"? Yes, it does. But whether it happens or not, is wholly irrelevant to whether they were catastrophically wrong picks, which as of right now they both were.



    Boyd played a lot and put up stats better than Sanu and not far off from Jones, Vigil played a lot for a Marvin rookie, Cody Core showed a lot of promise,
    Boyd and Core played well for rookies. Vigil? Eh, whatever. Maybe a decent backup if he is more consistently in position.


    To say the Bengals didn't get anything out of the 2016 draft is silly.
    They got terribly little. There's no way around it. Zero difference makers. Some guys who might log decent snaps routinely? Sure. No starters. You can't have a draft with zero starters.

    Erickson was stellar and a value. Not drafted and probably most impactful rookie.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by CinciFan View Post
    WHAT? As of right now, they were HARMFUL rather than helpful. We actually LOST by drafting them. Would have had SOMEONE who at least took hits & blocked / played snaps and hit someone, vs. expensive IR line items who contributed zero and added uncertainty.






    You have ZERO idea, and only hoping they'll ever play / matter. As of right now, they're utter disasters. "It happens"? Yes, it does. But whether it happens or not, is wholly irrelevant to whether they were catastrophically wrong picks, which as of right now they both were.





    Boyd and Core played well for rookies. Vigil? Eh, whatever. Maybe a decent backup if he is more consistently in position.




    They got terribly little. There's no way around it. Zero difference makers. Some guys who might log decent snaps routinely? Sure. No starters. You can't have a draft with zero starters.

    Erickson was stellar and a value. Not drafted and probably most impactful rookie.
    You can't blame a team for drafting poorly because of freak injuries in training camp... Jesus dude. You going to blame the front office for the weather next?

  9. #49
    WJIII, Billings, et al., are going to be joining real rookies this TC. They may have the benefit of having a full year to learn system, be in the building, etc, but on-the-field-wise, they will be as green as the true newbies. As fans, we will need to be careful not to label them as "busts" if they do not hit the ground running right away. They will take time to develop--just like the rookies they essentially are.

    And call me overly optimistic, but I did see Fisher come on by leaps and bounds the latter part of the year. IMO he has the stuff to be a very good RT. Ced is going to have the benefit of working behind one of the best in the business for 1-2 more years...and he does possess the raw physical tools to be a special LT. Athleticism, speed, agility cannot be coached, and this guy has all of this in spades. He had no business being a RT..it isn't his style. Even the hated Bodine played remarkably better the last half of the season--leading me to believe the light came on for him. He too has good physical tools to be better than average.

    The place where they should be focusing on in FA and draft (in order of "need"):

    Linebacker
    Defensive End
    Kicker
    "This game isn't worth it. The National Football League isn't worth it. There's golf to be played and tennis to be served up and other things to be done out there besides worryin' about a friggin' football game."----The prophet Sam Wyche

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Le Tigre View Post
    Ced is going to have the benefit of working behind one of the best in the business for 1-2 more years...and he does possess the raw physical tools to be a special LT. Athleticism, speed, agility cannot be coached, and this guy has all of this in spades. He had no business being a RT..it isn't his style. Even the hated Bodine played remarkably better the last half of the season--leading me to believe the light came on for him. He too has good physical tools to be better than average.
    r
    1 to 2 more years? His contract will be up by then or close to it and he'll be bye-bye. Bodine is still garbage, he needs to go.

  11. #51
    Have any better ideas?
    "This game isn't worth it. The National Football League isn't worth it. There's golf to be played and tennis to be served up and other things to be done out there besides worryin' about a friggin' football game."----The prophet Sam Wyche

  12. #52
    Have the Bengals hire a handful of us to run the front office?

  13. #53
    Yourself excepted naturally, but a group of Internet message board people, over people who have spent their working lives in the business? But then, why bother with this franchise? Why not take a real challenge and go fix the Brownies or the Rams?
    "This game isn't worth it. The National Football League isn't worth it. There's golf to be played and tennis to be served up and other things to be done out there besides worryin' about a friggin' football game."----The prophet Sam Wyche

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Le Tigre View Post
    Yourself excepted naturally, but a group of Internet message board people, over people who have spent their working lives in the business? But then, why bother with this franchise? Why not take a real challenge and go fix the Brownies or the Rams?
    Well yes, to me experience is a lousy indicator of success. In the modern era, coaches win the Super Bowl within five years of being hired with their new team. Otherwise, it will never happen, the exception being Bill Cowher but he did take the Steelers to the Super Bowl within five years losing to Dallas. All of these "money ball" statistical analysis can plug and chug algorithms all day long, they forget psychology, organization, and motivation.

  15. #55
    It is an interesting theorem. I suppose if we can elect Presidents with no experience, this can be done also.
    "This game isn't worth it. The National Football League isn't worth it. There's golf to be played and tennis to be served up and other things to be done out there besides worryin' about a friggin' football game."----The prophet Sam Wyche

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Le Tigre View Post
    And call me overly optimistic,
    While I agree with a lot of your points in this thread, I would call that overly optimistic. I didn't see anything from Fisher that made me think his ceiling is any better than average. I thought he was overrated coming out of college and I still think that, and Ogbuehi is clearly shell shocked and lacks confidence. And Bodine needs to be replaced. Nobody had him has higher than a 6th round pick the year we traded up in the 4th round to get him, and now I'm thinking there's a reason for that.

    What worries me the most is Lewis's consistent comments that our roster is just fine. Peko is fine, let's resign him. The guys just need to play better. Right. The other 31 teams can say that too. No, it isn't fine, and we need a game changer, like a McCarron trade, to jump start it. In the latest Hobson column he actually says the other teams don't have better rosters, they just happened to play better on the days we played them. I've been a Marvin defender for a long time, but what a joke.

    And I'm no longer banking on the idea that Whit will re-sign. What if he sees the same writing on the wall that Guenther sees that made him ask to interview in Washington? An over the hill coach who coddles veterans.

  17. #57
    TRUE Conservative CinciFan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lewdog View Post
    You can't blame a team for drafting poorly because of freak injuries in training camp... Jesus dude. You going to blame the front office for the weather next?
    What does "blame" have to do with what I said? I talked about the effects those rookies had on the team. Their impact was ALL negative. There's no way around it. Calling them useless or even forfeiting those picks would have been better to this point, than having them "on the team".

    But even beyond that, take a look into history and see what teams have drafted more "lost" 1st / 2nd round picks than Cincinnati. Just to name a few ... Kijana, Perry, Pollack, Ogboui, WJIII, Billings ...

  18. #58
    In the minority shebengal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CinciFan View Post

    But even beyond that, take a look into history and see what teams have drafted more "lost" 1st / 2nd round picks than Cincinnati. Just to name a few ... Kijana, Perry, Pollack, Ogboui, WJIII, Billings ...
    How about Cleveland? Manziel, Gilbert (who most people forget was picked before Manziel,) Brady Quinn, Brandon Weeden, Trent Richardson, Cameron Irving, Barkevious Mingo, and that list goes on and on. The only difference is that Cleveland cuts them loose early on. (But they have no patience with coaches, either.)
    "She's a Browns fan. She doesn't know anything about the playoffs." Chuck Todd referring to Kelly O'Donnell on "Meet the Press"

    "The Browns are so low in national esteem that they troll the football equivalent of the thermal vents at the bottom of the Marianas Trench in the Pacific. This is the deepest point on the surface of the earth. Strange creatures live there and also in Berea." Bill Livingston-The Plain Dealer

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by CinciFan View Post
    What does "blame" have to do with what I said? I talked about the effects those rookies had on the team. Their impact was ALL negative. There's no way around it. Calling them useless or even forfeiting those picks would have been better to this point, than having them "on the team".

    But even beyond that, take a look into history and see what teams have drafted more "lost" 1st / 2nd round picks than Cincinnati. Just to name a few ... Kijana, Perry, Pollack, Ogboui, WJIII, Billings ...
    Now you're just being a prick. Ogbuehi is not gone, WJIII is not gone, and Billings isn't gone. WTF is wrong with you? I think Ogbuehi has been a bust so far, but he was a first round pick and has three more years left on his rookie contract. WJIII and Billings suffered freak injuries. You don't draft thinking that a guy is going to tear his pectoral muscle in training camp or the other guy is going to hurt his leg. Billings is a first round talent the Bengals got in the 4th... HE WAS A 4TH ROUND PICK! For fuc ks sake quit being so negative on this past year's draft class, the guys not hurt played more this past year than Marvin has let rookies play almost the entire time he's been here outside of Dalton and Green.

  20. #60
    We all love to bash this organization, but there is zero reason to bash the overall drafting of players for the past number of years. the scouting department has put a lot of quality players in the coaches hands, comparable to nay team in the league really. The draft room is NOT the issue with this teams inability to get over the playoff game hump.
    Marvin Lewis - the Clapping Clown.

  21. #61
    Roethlisberger is not committing to next season

    http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300...to-2017-season

    Think we need to do something to see to it that AJ McCarron does not end up in Pittsburgh in the next couple of yrs

  22. #62
    Sith Lord ralphmtsu's Avatar
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    The Bengals will not trade McCarron unless they get a damn good offer. The better question would be this. Should the Bengals trade Dalton? I've looked at his stats. In my opinion, he has hit his plateau. If I know anything about the NFL it is this. You don't win the Super Bowl without an elite QB. As much as it pains me, Dalton is not elite. He's good, but everything has to be perfect for him to be elite. Right now, our OL is far from perfect and our run game is putrid (unless the opponent is Cleveland). Dalton just lacks the "it" factor. Personally, I think McCarron just might have the "it" factor. If not him and we are in a win now mode, go get Romo, dump Dalton and wait a year to resign McCarron as the heir apparent to Tony.
    Don't underestimate the power of the Dark Side!

  23. #63
    Ive actually had this thought. Never happen though.

    Except for the part re Romo. Dudes gonna shatter before our eyes if he ever plays again.
    Dona eis Requiem

  24. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by ralphmtsu View Post
    The Bengals will not trade McCarron unless they get a damn good offer. The better question would be this. Should the Bengals trade Dalton? I've looked at his stats. In my opinion, he has hit his plateau. If I know anything about the NFL it is this. You don't win the Super Bowl without an elite QB. As much as it pains me, Dalton is not elite. He's good, but everything has to be perfect for him to be elite. Right now, our OL is far from perfect and our run game is putrid (unless the opponent is Cleveland). Dalton just lacks the "it" factor. Personally, I think McCarron just might have the "it" factor. If not him and we are in a win now mode, go get Romo, dump Dalton and wait a year to resign McCarron as the heir apparent to Tony.
    Which is why for the last few draft to go QB in the first two rounds. We could have picked Carr or Garoppolo and they would have not only competed with Dalton but possibly passed him. The fact that this team 'accepts' Dalton shows how they like to be comfortable and competitive but not willing to push to be elite. There is simply no way the stars would align for Dalton to play at a high level for 3 straight playoff games against the toughest competition.

    Said it too may times already - we are going nowhere in the playoffs with Dalton and ML. They got us to this level, but that is it.
    Marvin Lewis - the Clapping Clown.

  25. #65
    Administrator Super Cat's Avatar
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    Dalton isn't given enough credit. He doesn't have the best offensive line plus his receivers are either young or hurt. Fix the line and all falls into place. I think we need Whitworth inside at tackle pay. Move Boling to center and put Whitworth between Ogbuehi and Boling.A couple years ago I might of agreed to replace Dalton, but now I'm fully behind him. His one weak spot is trying to feed Green. When Eifert is in the lineup, he throws to Green less. Either trade McCarron or let him play out his contract.

  26. #66
    Sith Lord ralphmtsu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Super Cat View Post
    Dalton isn't given enough credit. He doesn't have the best offensive line plus his receivers are either young or hurt. Fix the line and all falls into place. I think we need Whitworth inside at tackle pay. Move Boling to center and put Whitworth between Ogbuehi and Boling.A couple years ago I might of agreed to replace Dalton, but now I'm fully behind him. His one weak spot is trying to feed Green. When Eifert is in the lineup, he throws to Green less. Either trade McCarron or let him play out his contract.
    You just made my point about Dalton not being elite. He has to have everything go right for him to be effective. Real elite QBs overcome the problems around them. Tom Brady always seems to be working behind a patch-work OL comprised of low round draft picks. Also, how many times has Brady worked with no-name receivers who rotate through New England? Edleman goes down. Gronk goes down. Hernandez goes to prison. Welker leaves. The constant is Brady who always finds someone to throw to. Same can be said of Drew Brees and Aaron Rodgers.

    Dalton just happens to be at the top end of average QBs like Tannehill, Bradford, Cutler, Stafford, Kaepernick, etc. Heck, he will soon be or has already been passed by QBs like Carr, Wilson, and Winston. To me, the question comes down to this. Do you really trust Dalton to make a play when it matters the most during a game? Far too often, the answer is that it is a crap-shoot at best. Whereas with a Brady, Brees, Rodgers or Ryan; you know the odds of making a must play are damn high. Now, part of this is also a coaching issue as well. ML plays way too conservative which in turn forces Dalton into situations where he has to make a crucial play. At times, this team seems to lack a killer instinct-- especially on offense. The only time I've really witnessed the team with a killer instinct is when the defense takes control of a game. We need more of that on offense. It might just be that the coaches don't trust Dalton. If that is the case, put someone back there that you do trust in. Give A.J. a shot. I think he has a lot of Brett Favre in him.
    Don't underestimate the power of the Dark Side!

  27. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by ralphmtsu View Post
    The Bengals will not trade McCarron unless they get a damn good offer. The better question would be this. Should the Bengals trade Dalton? I've looked at his stats. In my opinion, he has hit his plateau. If I know anything about the NFL it is this. You don't win the Super Bowl without an elite QB. As much as it pains me, Dalton is not elite. He's good, but everything has to be perfect for him to be elite. Right now, our OL is far from perfect and our run game is putrid (unless the opponent is Cleveland). Dalton just lacks the "it" factor. Personally, I think McCarron just might have the "it" factor. If not him and we are in a win now mode, go get Romo, dump Dalton and wait a year to resign McCarron as the heir apparent to Tony.
    That's complete bullshit! I can think of 2 QB that don't need "everything perfect". Rogers and Brady. They other 30 starting QBs are not going to carry their team on their backs. Maybe throw Ben in there but at times when Brown isn't in the line up he looks rather pedestrian. I'm LMAO at people that are starting to put Carr in that upper tier of QBs, please be real people. Dalton is the least of this franchises problem....

  28. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by sandwedge View Post
    That's complete bullshit! I can think of 2 QB that don't need "everything perfect". Rogers and Brady. They other 30 starting QBs are not going to carry their team on their backs. Maybe throw Ben in there but at times when Brown isn't in the line up he looks rather pedestrian. I'm LMAO at people that are starting to put Carr in that upper tier of QBs, please be real people. Dalton is the least of this franchises problem....
    Dalton is ONE of the problems of the organization if the goal is to win a Super Bowl. If we want to just be a competitive team then you are correct he in not the problem. Carr played better this year than Dalton has in any year, what he do not know about him is - can he do it in big games? Won't know until he gets there. With Dalton we already know he is inclined to collapse like an old card table. he is a know commodity, much like Alex Smith. Alex perhaps a bit better but cannot get over the hump.

    Is it hard to find an elite QB? Of course, but if you want to consistently compete for the Super Bowl you need one and you have to keep looking for one. In our history we have had 4 very good QB's (although one can say CP fails in big games as well) so it is not like they are impossible to find. I have no issue with playing Dalton until a better option is found. That should be the goal, keep looking for someone better.
    Marvin Lewis - the Clapping Clown.

  29. #69
    TD Bengals's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I_C_DeadPeople View Post
    Is it hard to find an elite QB? Of course, but if you want to consistently compete for the Super Bowl you need one and you have to keep looking for one. In our history we have had 4 very good QB's (although one can say CP fails in big games as well) so it is not like they are impossible to find. I have no issue with playing Dalton until a better option is found. That should be the goal, keep looking for someone better.
    There is a Catch-22 with QBs. You play your starter until a better option is found, but you never know if the guy on the bench is better unless the starter gets injured or is sucking so bad that he gets benched. McCarron could be the next Tom Brady or he could be Nick Foles.

  30. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by I_C_DeadPeople View Post
    Dalton is ONE of the problems of the organization if the goal is to win a Super Bowl. If we want to just be a competitive team then you are correct he in not the problem. Carr played better this year than Dalton has in any year, what he do not know about him is - can he do it in big games? Won't know until he gets there. With Dalton we already know he is inclined to collapse like an old card table. he is a know commodity, much like Alex Smith. Alex perhaps a bit better but cannot get over the hump.

    Is it hard to find an elite QB? Of course, but if you want to consistently compete for the Super Bowl you need one and you have to keep looking for one. In our history we have had 4 very good QB's (although one can say CP fails in big games as well) so it is not like they are impossible to find. I have no issue with playing Dalton until a better option is found. That should be the goal, keep looking for someone better.
    More utter nonsense..... The whole team collapses.. But I know we want to blame someone for Gio's fumble, AJ dropping a perfect pass at the goal line or a coach unable to draw up a play for our best receiver.. How about our vaunted D with the great Zim at the helm?? Completely shits the bed in big games, couldn't stop SD in the playoff game, who came in with a crappy running game and we made them look good....

  31. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by TD Bengals View Post
    There is a Catch-22 with QBs. You play your starter until a better option is found, but you never know if the guy on the bench is better unless the starter gets injured or is sucking so bad that he gets benched. McCarron could be the next Tom Brady or he could be Nick Foles.
    Or Matt Cassell... or Bret Favre... or Jeff Hostetler... or Earl Morrell... or Steve Young... or Jay Schroeder... or Aaron Rodgers!

  32. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by sandwedge View Post
    More utter nonsense..... The whole team collapses.. But I know we want to blame someone for Gio's fumble, AJ dropping a perfect pass at the goal line or a coach unable to draw up a play for our best receiver.. How about our vaunted D with the great Zim at the helm?? Completely shits the bed in big games, couldn't stop SD in the playoff game, who came in with a crappy running game and we made them look good....
    I never said others did not contribute to the collapse(s). But our starting QB did not elevate his game and the team as the great ones seem to do. The HC and the QB are probably the two key components to winning teams.
    Marvin Lewis - the Clapping Clown.

  33. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by TD Bengals View Post
    There is a Catch-22 with QBs. You play your starter until a better option is found, but you never know if the guy on the bench is better unless the starter gets injured or is sucking so bad that he gets benched. McCarron could be the next Tom Brady or he could be Nick Foles.
    Quite true. I have been an advocate of giving McCarron more playing time simply because I know Dalton is not the answer.
    Marvin Lewis - the Clapping Clown.

  34. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by ralphmtsu View Post
    The Bengals will not trade McCarron unless they get a damn good offer. The better question would be this. Should the Bengals trade Dalton? I've looked at his stats. In my opinion, he has hit his plateau. If I know anything about the NFL it is this. You don't win the Super Bowl without an elite QB. As much as it pains me, Dalton is not elite. He's good, but everything has to be perfect for him to be elite. Right now, our OL is far from perfect and our run game is putrid (unless the opponent is Cleveland). Dalton just lacks the "it" factor. Personally, I think McCarron just might have the "it" factor. If not him and we are in a win now mode, go get Romo, dump Dalton and wait a year to resign McCarron as the heir apparent to Tony.
    as you say our OL is far from perfect but you want to get a Older QB that has major issues at staying healthy? great plan.... well if its to let your back up QBs play many snaps. better plan would be fix the damn OL so your proven good( but not elite) QB has alittle protection and a running game. or just get a kicker that can make FGs/extra points and you'll win 3-4 more games just with your good (but not elite) QB and Faaaaaaaar from perfect OL

  35. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    Roethlisberger is not committing to next season

    http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300...to-2017-season

    Think we need to do something to see to it that AJ McCarron does not end up in Pittsburgh in the next couple of yrs
    Kind of lost in this thread, but this is sort of an odd statement by Benny. He does get the living shit knocked out of him every season..maybe age, maturity, wife/family has sunk into his thick skull that perhaps he wants to walk or be able to eat without drooling when he's 50.

    Or he's just a drama queen? We already know that.
    "This game isn't worth it. The National Football League isn't worth it. There's golf to be played and tennis to be served up and other things to be done out there besides worryin' about a friggin' football game."----The prophet Sam Wyche

  36. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by ralphmtsu View Post
    The Bengals will not trade McCarron unless they get a damn good offer. The better question would be this. Should the Bengals trade Dalton? I've looked at his stats. In my opinion, he has hit his plateau. If I know anything about the NFL it is this. You don't win the Super Bowl without an elite QB. As much as it pains me, Dalton is not elite. He's good, but everything has to be perfect for him to be elite. Right now, our OL is far from perfect and our run game is putrid (unless the opponent is Cleveland). Dalton just lacks the "it" factor. Personally, I think McCarron just might have the "it" factor. If not him and we are in a win now mode, go get Romo, dump Dalton and wait a year to resign McCarron as the heir apparent to Tony.
    I think the Bengals should think about this but they don't think outside the box. They'd be the last team that'd move Dalton for McCarron. If it were me I'd bring in a new coach and seriously discuss this with him.

  37. #77
    Sith Lord ralphmtsu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Tigre View Post
    Kind of lost in this thread, but this is sort of an odd statement by Benny. He does get the living shit knocked out of him every season..maybe age, maturity, wife/family has sunk into his thick skull that perhaps he wants to walk or be able to eat without drooling when he's 50.

    Or he's just a drama queen? We already know that.
    I'll take the over that Ben is being a drama queen-- as normal. He will be back there when 2017 starts.
    Don't underestimate the power of the Dark Side!

  38. #78
    Sith Lord ralphmtsu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    I think the Bengals should think about this but they don't think outside the box. They'd be the last team that'd move Dalton for McCarron. If it were me I'd bring in a new coach and seriously discuss this with him.
    The used to think outside the box. They had the 2 most innovative minds in football--Walsh and Wyche. Now, they have the clapping clown who is a very inside the box type thinker. His mantra-- keep it close and hope to win. I want a coach who's mantra is damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead. I want a coach willing to take risks and be aggressive. I'm so sick of the close to the vest crap.
    Don't underestimate the power of the Dark Side!

  39. #79
    My cat goes outside the box. Clearly unpleasant for me. Thrtefore thinking outside the box scare s the bejesus out of me.
    Dona eis Requiem

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