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Thread: OL Ramblings

  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Le Tigre View Post
    You always make it sound like all the "owners" are these super smart/innovative/rich leviathans that the poor Bengals are bound to like galley slaves.

    You never once ever mention (although all rich) nincompoops like Mark Davis, Zygi Wilf, Jed York, Stephen Ross, Dean Spanos, Stan Kroenke, the entire Ford family and Jimmy Haslam. Throw in even Dan Snyder, Bill Bidwell, and Jerry Jones too.

    Yes, let's take our leads from this group.

    Oh, here we go: please say something about playoff games, how much money they spend, and how they "try".
    No doubt a lot of the owners are meddling morons. Mikey has done them all a favor by controlling their spending habits via a better cap system on the last CBA. My point was that teams like the Pats, Steelers, Raiders and Cowboys and Packers are the teams that are driving the NFL value higher. Mikey contributes nothing to do this. If he actually cared about winning and being in championship contention over time we could be one of the teams that were considered in tjhis group.
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  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by I_C_DeadPeople View Post
    True enough but if the Bengals tried to sign Zietler for say $8M per year why have they not now spent that money on a replacement?
    like who though? I've yet to see anyone out there that fits the criteria....all I've seen are a bunch of guys that fit the mold of the players we already have here waiting their turn.

    like I said in an earlier post, offer these guys a fair deal to get them locked up before they can hit FA and if they reject it, trade them off....that's really the only way a team can get any real assurances.
    “We are not going in circles, we are going upwards. The path is a spiral; we have already climbed many steps.” --Hermann Hesse, Siddhartha

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by I_C_DeadPeople View Post
    My point was that teams like the Pats, Steelers, Raiders and Cowboys and Packers are the teams that are driving the NFL value higher.
    great, you just named 5 teams out of 32.

    and how in the hell can the Packers and Steelers be driving the NFL value higher when they use the EXACT same business model that the Bengals do?

    maybe Ben Rapistberger and Aaron Rodgers help drive it up but the front offices of those teams surely don't.
    “We are not going in circles, we are going upwards. The path is a spiral; we have already climbed many steps.” --Hermann Hesse, Siddhartha

  4. #84
    And Mark Davis is the chief nincompoop. How do the Raiders drive anything?

    Of course, like Jerry's franchise, there is always the name recognition. Despite any other shortcomings, that would still equate to a bunch of money.
    "This game isn't worth it. The National Football League isn't worth it. There's golf to be played and tennis to be served up and other things to be done out there besides worryin' about a friggin' football game."----The prophet Sam Wyche

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by spicoli View Post
    but you can't put that ALL on the team (any team) because all they can do is make the offers, they can't hold a gun to the guys head and make him sign it.

    all indications are (and by indications I mean Dave Lapham inside info), the team tried to get Zeitler signed when the Steelers locked up DeCastro only to be turned down simply because he thought he could play out his contract and then get more on the open market....it was a gamble, but one that paid off for him in the end....how is that on the Bengals?
    In the case of Zietler I don't put it on the Bengals. I wouldn't pay him 12 million either (although I would echo the point of whoever it was above who questioned why we'd draft a G in the first round if we don't pay them. Zeitler said himself that he was told the day he was drafted that he'd only play through his first contract here. It wasn't clear whether he meant the Bengals told him that or his agent did, but the fact that we picked a guy who we wouldn't re-sign if he lived up to his first round status just doesn't make sense. But I digress.) But I would certainly give Whitworth the deal the Rams did. An when we lost him I'd give Burkhead more than what the Pats did, and just move him up the depth chart atop Hill.

    I get that we offered Marvin Jones the same as the Lions did, and we couldn't make him stay. But once we lost him did we pivot immediately to Sanu, or did we just say hey, comp picks are awesome, let's replace them with a 2nd round rookie, and maybe we'll add a few waver-wire quality backs ups at the end of the 4th and 5th round next year? Nothing against Boyd, but we could've brought back Sanu, and used that pick elsewhere. That's building the team, not being on this ridiculous hamster wheel all the time.

    I'm thinking of cases like losing Jonathan Joseph. We could've been more competitive there.

    It's frustrating that the ONLY player we've retained this year is Kirkpatrick, and Hobson keeps explaining how great a third and fifth round pick would be. I'd rather have Whit. Had we kept Whit, we probably still would've added Andre, but we would've cut jones and/or Maualugua. Fine. So the question is, why don't we cut them anyway, and sign a guy like Jonathan Hankins? Because then we have to wave goodbye to a fifth round pick in 2018! It's the fact that we'd rather roll with Pat Sims than Hankins (in tandem with Billings) because we think we can just roll players on cheap, rookie contracts through the roster on four year cycles, let them walk, compile more picks, and think we're going to win that way.

    Sure I got off the original point somewhat, but there's no doubt that we have a hard time keeping talent around here.

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bengali View Post
    Nothing against Boyd, but we could've brought back Sanu, and used that pick elsewhere.
    I don't get that line of thought either, what did Sanu give this team that Boyd or Lafell didn't?

    they clearly made Jones a priority and tried to make it happen, he just chose to leave for his own reasons.....Sanu though, I don't think was ever part of the plan because he was really just a guy here, nothing special and absolutely 110% not even close to being worth what he ended up getting in ATL.

    I'm perfectly fine with how it all played out actually, looking back.....I'd even go as far as calling that one a win for the Bengals.

    but we would've cut jones and/or Maualugua. Fine. So the question is, why don't we cut them anyway, and sign a guy like Jonathan Hankins?
    I guarantee you that Hankins or not, or any other outside FA, those two will absolutely be cut before the start of TC....neither one have any relevance as to what is going on at the present moment.
    “We are not going in circles, we are going upwards. The path is a spiral; we have already climbed many steps.” --Hermann Hesse, Siddhartha

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by spicoli View Post
    great, you just named 5 teams out of 32.

    and how in the hell can the Packers and Steelers be driving the NFL value higher when they use the EXACT same business model that the Bengals do?

    maybe Ben Rapistberger and Aaron Rodgers help drive it up but the front offices of those teams surely don't.
    How many buy Steelers gear and Packers gear compared to the Bengals? Which teams are more watched on TV? Which teams have more fan followers outside their cities? In that regard, the Bengals are as lowly as the Lions. It is a joke to say we have the same business model as the Steelers and Packers - Their business models are built on winning which builds a fan following for decades. Our model is seen ans a losing team and the 4 straight playoff egg layings have PROMOTED that perception, made it worse. When I talk football with another NFL fan i these days it is always the same 'doesn't matter if the Bengals make the playoffs, they will choke first game'. If Mikey actually emulated the Steelers/Packers he would have built an organization that can win and make money in the current NFL system. Packers make $20M per year or so PLUS their franchise has a high value. That is another thing the tree sloth is clueless on - if the team has a winning tradition and a large fan base, the team itself is worth more money. In the last Forbes listing, the Packers are worth $2.35B, the Steelers $2.23B and the Bengals are at $1.65B. So the Steelers are worth $580 Million more than the Bengals but no worries because Mikey 'saves' $10M per year in salary cap. As per usual, Mikey cannot see the forest for the trees. In sports, you build a BRAND by investing in the team. Mikey simply looks at year to year profits. There is no plan, master plan, grand plan, marketing plan or brand strategy. You can believe otherwise but the teams values reflect that. For all his penny pinching, he is actually not increasing the value of the team nearly as much as others. This is mismanagement of the team brand itself which is where the true value of the NFL team is.

    I have been and still am at the executive level in business, not bragging just saying, but when you build a Company and a brand you do not do what Mikey does. The Pats are worth $3.4B but prior to Kraft buying I am sure they were close to what the Bengals were worth. But Kraft built the team and the brand.

    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2...nfl-franchises
    Marvin Lewis - the Clapping Clown.

  8. #88
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    put Ben Rapistberger or Aaron rodgers on this same Bengals team over the last 6 years and then talk to me about "perception".......just sayin.


    The Pats are worth $3.4B but prior to Kraft buying I am sure they were close to what the Bengals were worth. But Kraft built the team and the brand.
    actually I think most would argue that Tom Brady and Bill Belicheck built that brand....not Robert Kraft.
    “We are not going in circles, we are going upwards. The path is a spiral; we have already climbed many steps.” --Hermann Hesse, Siddhartha

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by spicoli View Post
    put Ben Rapistberger or Aaron rodgers on this same Bengals team over the last 6 years and then talk to me about "perception".......just sayin.




    actually I think most would argue that Tom Brady and Bill Belicheck built that brand....not Robert Kraft.
    Who hired Belickek and lets him run the show? You have completely missed the point.
    Marvin Lewis - the Clapping Clown.

  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by I_C_DeadPeople View Post
    Who hired Belickek and lets him run the show? You have completely missed the point.
    he completely lucked out with both Belicheat and Brady.....Belicheat had sucked at every stop before he got to NE and Brady was picked in the 6th round and only got his chance because of a cheapshot on Drew Bledsoe.

    trust me I'm not saying that he hasn't been good, I understand what that franchise is valued at, but there was definitely a lot of luck involved early on for them....without completely lucking into the two B's, there's no brand to build.
    “We are not going in circles, we are going upwards. The path is a spiral; we have already climbed many steps.” --Hermann Hesse, Siddhartha

  11. #91
    Maybe Belichick cheated by stealing the signals of the Rams....other teams do it all the time. Deflate-gate was never looked at through the scope of physics. If you put the measurements made by the NFL through Gay-Lussac's Law, the culprit was temperature change.

    Totally different note, this draft is VERY weak for offensive lineman.

  12. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by BengalCP9 View Post

    Totally different note, this draft is VERY weak for offensive lineman.
    it's horrible....there's a few good G's and some project RT's, that's about it.
    “We are not going in circles, we are going upwards. The path is a spiral; we have already climbed many steps.” --Hermann Hesse, Siddhartha

  13. #93
    We are stuck with Bodine at center, I hope the Bengals kick the tires of the LSU and OSU centers.

    I bet we end up putting Andre Smith at RT and moving Fischer to LT.

  14. #94
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    sounds like Smith to RG for now.....subject to change if Ogbuehi struggles early.
    “We are not going in circles, we are going upwards. The path is a spiral; we have already climbed many steps.” --Hermann Hesse, Siddhartha

  15. #95
    Ogbuehi will not be able to handle the bull-rush. His strength is lousy.....so I'm sure we are going to end up shuffling. I sure hope we don't have to but Ogbuehi is VERY soft.

    I laughed about how poor baby can't play "Right Tackle". What the heck is this dude's problem? I can understand asking Jeremy Hill to go be our starting linebacker and seeing him suck and moving him back to running back (which he sucks at anyways) but O-Line is O-Line. It's not the like the technique or what you are being asked to do is SO radically different on one side of the line than the other that this should be an excuse. Please, usually at left tackle you're seeing the bad-boy pass rushers. This dude just doesn't want to work hard.

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by BengalCP9 View Post
    Ogbuehi will not be able to handle the bull-rush. His strength is lousy.....so I'm sure we are going to end up shuffling. I sure hope we don't have to but Ogbuehi is VERY soft.

    I laughed about how poor baby can't play "Right Tackle". What the heck is this dude's problem? I can understand asking Jeremy Hill to go be our starting linebacker and seeing him suck and moving him back to running back (which he sucks at anyways) but O-Line is O-Line. It's not the like the technique or what you are being asked to do is SO radically different on one side of the line than the other that this should be an excuse. Please, usually at left tackle you're seeing the bad-boy pass rushers. This dude just doesn't want to work hard.
    If you would read up on him, he's been working his ass of to get stronger this past year out in LA even working with boxers and MMA guys to improve his foot work. Whitworth even said that when he gets to LA he is still going to work out with Cedric and help him get better.

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by BengalCP9 View Post
    Totally different note, this draft is VERY weak for offensive lineman.
    Very weak for OTs not so weak for interior, especially when the OTs who should be guards get moved inside.

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by spicoli View Post
    he completely lucked out with both Belicheat and Brady.....Belicheat had sucked at every stop before he got to NE and Brady was picked in the 6th round and only got his chance because of a cheapshot on Drew Bledsoe.

    trust me I'm not saying that he hasn't been good, I understand what that franchise is valued at, but there was definitely a lot of luck involved early on for them....without completely lucking into the two B's, there's no brand to build.
    The point is though - he wanted to WIN and had the desire to WIN, not to carve off a few pennies each year extra. So he made moves to build a winning organization. He did not just hire in-breds and think he knew more about football than others, etc. He set out to build a winning organization. That is not done with luck. He sought out the right people. Cleveland had Belechick but not only did not help him build a winning organization around him, he canned him. There is your difference between a winning organization and one that is not.
    Marvin Lewis - the Clapping Clown.

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by spicoli View Post
    I don't get that line of thought either, what did Sanu give this team that Boyd or Lafell didn't?.
    The question is more "what would we have spent that 2nd round pick on if we had kept one of those guys that we don't currently have."

    You make fair points, but it remains the case, in my opinion, that at some point we have to turn off the tap before we mop up the flooded floor.

  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by Lewdog View Post
    If you would read up on him, he's been working his ass of to get stronger this past year out in LA even working with boxers and MMA guys to improve his foot work. Whitworth even said that when he gets to LA he is still going to work out with Cedric and help him get better.
    That would be relevant if his work ethic was ever the problem. I believe he's a good person who tries hard, but that's not always enough. His confidence and "it" factor are what I question. Just certain things he's said in the past, like the fact that once his body matured and gained strength he'd be able to stand up to the bull rush more. I'm sure that's what the coaches told him to keep his confidence up, but that just tells me that the coaches are worried about his confidence, and that he is too. Those shrinking violet types don't last too long in the NFL, try hard or not.

    I like Ced well enough and truly hope he proves me wrong. Maybe age and maturity will help. But for now I'm worried.

  21. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bengali View Post
    The question is more "what would we have spent that 2nd round pick on if we had kept one of those guys that we don't currently have."

    You make fair points, but it remains the case, in my opinion, that at some point we have to turn off the tap before we mop up the flooded floor.
    but in order to keep Sanu they would have had to have overpaid him pretty significantly.....something that was completely unnecessary to do for a 4th or 5th option at best within the offense.

    they got Lafell for half the price and got the same production, getting a young stud in Boyd to play the slot was just a bonus....the two together was a win for the organization in this case.
    “We are not going in circles, we are going upwards. The path is a spiral; we have already climbed many steps.” --Hermann Hesse, Siddhartha

  22. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by I_C_DeadPeople View Post
    The point is though - he wanted to WIN and had the desire to WIN, not to carve off a few pennies each year extra. So he made moves to build a winning organization. He did not just hire in-breds and think he knew more about football than others, etc. He set out to build a winning organization. That is not done with luck. He sought out the right people. Cleveland had Belechick but not only did not help him build a winning organization around him, he canned him. There is your difference between a winning organization and one that is not.
    I guess my point was....it's simply a helluva lot easier to do those things when you have the likes of Brady and Belicheat on the payroll.

    also, getting a HOF caliber QB in the 6th round that you don't have to pay franchise money to for the first 5 years does wonders for the overall construction and development of a team.....remember back in those days there was no rookie slotting, the top QB's in the draft were coming in as the highest paid players in the league (ie. Carson Palmer), which handcuffed teams a good bit as far as building a roster around them.
    “We are not going in circles, we are going upwards. The path is a spiral; we have already climbed many steps.” --Hermann Hesse, Siddhartha

  23. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by Bengali View Post
    That would be relevant if his work ethic was ever the problem. I believe he's a good person who tries hard, but that's not always enough. His confidence and "it" factor are what I question. Just certain things he's said in the past, like the fact that once his body matured and gained strength he'd be able to stand up to the bull rush more. I'm sure that's what the coaches told him to keep his confidence up, but that just tells me that the coaches are worried about his confidence, and that he is too. Those shrinking violet types don't last too long in the NFL, try hard or not.

    I like Ced well enough and truly hope he proves me wrong. Maybe age and maturity will help. But for now I'm worried.
    I don't know if you work out or not... but it does take maturity to show up each day to train hard... and a big problem with Cedric is his strength and feet. Both of which I just told you and you ignored. There is also pictures of him doing some tough core body exercises which will help immensely from getting pushed back by the bull rush due to bowing his back.

  24. #104
    I have already given the Kraft bio before, so will not repeat the entire thing.

    Simple enough to say: he bought the team at its best purchase point (Kiam was done and wanted no part of the looming terrors regarding a new stadium). He inherited--not hired--the best coach/staff around at the time, Parcells. Tuna gets them to a SB, but loses. Next draft, Kraft thinks he knows more than Tuna on draft picks, and forces his will. Tuna tells him to bugger off and goes to NYJ (with BB). Why the great and knowledgeable Mr. Kraft didn't see the greatness in BB then and just hire him, we do not know. So instead he hires Pete Carroll, who bombs. He finally TRADES for BB, who promptly tanks the following season. Then the stars align in 2001, with the discovery of that 6th round pick--who only plays because the franchise QB (who has taken them to a SB) gets murdered on the field.

    When I think of great owners, who are part and parcel in the making of great franchises, I do not think of Robert Kraft. I would think of him as skilled in being the right place at the right time however.
    "This game isn't worth it. The National Football League isn't worth it. There's golf to be played and tennis to be served up and other things to be done out there besides worryin' about a friggin' football game."----The prophet Sam Wyche

  25. #105
    "Bottom Line NFL evaluators are very worried about Ogbuehi's core strength and ability to anchor in pass protection, but some of his anchor issues could be improved with technique work -- especially where his hands are concerned. He should be a plus run blocker, especially on stretch plays, but needs to add strength and work on technique if he is to reach his play potential. "

    He's been in the NFL for two years now. Very rarely are you going to find a player have the light-bulb turn on in year three. Rather than do this MMA crap, he needs to go find Geno Atkins. Atkins bench presses something like 465 lbs. and does 495 high-bar squat. Ogbuehi is a bust guys.

  26. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by BengalCP9 View Post
    "Bottom Line NFL evaluators are very worried about Ogbuehi's core strength and ability to anchor in pass protection, but some of his anchor issues could be improved with technique work -- especially where his hands are concerned. He should be a plus run blocker, especially on stretch plays, but needs to add strength and work on technique if he is to reach his play potential. "

    He's been in the NFL for two years now. Very rarely are you going to find a player have the light-bulb turn on in year three. Rather than do this MMA crap, he needs to go find Geno Atkins. Atkins bench presses something like 465 lbs. and does 495 high-bar squat. Ogbuehi is a bust guys.
    all that being said, he still has yet to participate in a full NFL off-season.....believe it or not, that's a big deal.

    let's see how he does this year with a full off-season with the team under his belt, it could do wonders for him or maybe it does nothing at all......no reason not to give him a chance however.
    “We are not going in circles, we are going upwards. The path is a spiral; we have already climbed many steps.” --Hermann Hesse, Siddhartha

  27. #107
    I agree and I do hope this is the case with the guy. He just comes off as full of excuses in his interviews though. The college game is evolving into more of a 7 on 7 game. Coaches have remarked that the bigger players want to play defensive line because it's engaging and more fun. It's difficult to now find players who want to play offensive line because it requires being cerebral and technique based without much recognition. And since the college game is more spread offense, there is less emphasis placed upon strength and tenacity that is required at the pro level.

  28. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by BengalCP9 View Post
    I agree and I do hope this is the case with the guy. He just comes off as full of excuses in his interviews though. The college game is evolving into more of a 7 on 7 game. Coaches have remarked that the bigger players want to play defensive line because it's engaging and more fun. It's difficult to now find players who want to play offensive line because it requires being cerebral and technique based without much recognition. And since the college game is more spread offense, there is less emphasis placed upon strength and tenacity that is required at the pro level.
    Then teams should spend more money to keep the good OL they are able to find..oh wait..
    Marvin Lewis - the Clapping Clown.

  29. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by Le Tigre View Post
    I have already given the Kraft bio before, so will not repeat the entire thing.

    Simple enough to say: he bought the team at its best purchase point (Kiam was done and wanted no part of the looming terrors regarding a new stadium). He inherited--not hired--the best coach/staff around at the time, Parcells. Tuna gets them to a SB, but loses. Next draft, Kraft thinks he knows more than Tuna on draft picks, and forces his will. Tuna tells him to bugger off and goes to NYJ (with BB). Why the great and knowledgeable Mr. Kraft didn't see the greatness in BB then and just hire him, we do not know. So instead he hires Pete Carroll, who bombs. He finally TRADES for BB, who promptly tanks the following season. Then the stars align in 2001, with the discovery of that 6th round pick--who only plays because the franchise QB (who has taken them to a SB) gets murdered on the field.

    When I think of great owners, who are part and parcel in the making of great franchises, I do not think of Robert Kraft. I would think of him as skilled in being the right place at the right time however.
    Kraft is no doubt a guy who has learned from earlier mistakes and has not been stubborn about his early approach. Unlike Mikey who had to have teeth pulled in order to hire a coach outside his comfort zone not to mention the 15 years it took to actually have a reasonable number of people in the personnel department. There is no comparison between the two. But if you wish, please compare Mikey to the Rooney's approach or to the of the Packers.
    Marvin Lewis - the Clapping Clown.

  30. #110
    Go to a New England revolution message board and tell them that they are lucky to have the great Robert Kraft as an owner . . . then duck and run for cover. He is Mike Brown part II. They always know when it is time for season ticket renewal. Kraft has the local papers print articles about their search for sites for their potential new stadium. There is no search for potential sites, they just want people to re-up their season tickets. This happens every year right around the same time.

    He got lucky with Belichik and Brady.<------period
    Only users lose drugs

  31. #111
    The best owner was Eddie DeBartolo. He hired Bill Walsh and the right people, placed his support in the people he hired and signed checks. That's really what you do as an owner. You find the right people, allow them to do their job and generate success or progress. Until they change or demonstrate reasons to be fired, you just sit back and relax. The reason why the Cowboys didn't get more Super Bowls was because Jerry Jones resented all the credit Jimmy Johnson got for turning the team around when Jerry wasn't getting the press or credit. What an idiot, you hired the guy and made a smart decision. So then Jones runs his mouth and Jimmy Johnson out of Dallas. Just stupid. Kraft did get lucky, but he is smart enough to get out of the way instead of being an obstacle.

  32. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by spicoli View Post
    all that being said, he still has yet to participate in a full NFL off-season.....believe it or not, that's a big deal.

    let's see how he does this year with a full off-season with the team under his belt, it could do wonders for him or maybe it does nothing at all......no reason not to give him a chance however.
    that was my point earlier when i pointed out he should not just be handed the LT job like he was handed the RT job. no matter whether he gets it or not you are looking at the starting LT for the 1st 5-6 games no matter how good or bad he is.

  33. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by Lewdog View Post
    I don't know if you work out or not... but it does take maturity to show up each day to train hard... and a big problem with Cedric is his strength and feet. Both of which I just told you and you ignored. There is also pictures of him doing some tough core body exercises which will help immensely from getting pushed back by the bull rush due to bowing his back.
    You might have me mixed up with BengalCP9. I didn't say anything about his maturity, only his confidence. And I didn't ignore anything you said because this is the first time we've interacted on this topic on this board. Feel free to start making sense any time now.

  34. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by spicoli View Post
    but in order to keep Sanu they would have had to have overpaid him pretty significantly.....something that was completely unnecessary to do for a 4th or 5th option at best within the offense.

    they got Lafell for half the price and got the same production, getting a young stud in Boyd to play the slot was just a bonus....the two together was a win for the organization in this case.
    Except Lafell replaced Marvin Jones and Boyd was drafted to replace Sanu. Lafell is a downgrade from Jones, Boyd we will have to see - although Atlanta used Sanu very well in the SB run last year.
    Marvin Lewis - the Clapping Clown.

  35. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by I_C_DeadPeople View Post
    Except Lafell replaced Marvin Jones and Boyd was drafted to replace Sanu.
    meh, it's semantics, Sanu didn't just play the slot here.....but either way, what would have been the point in signing Sanu to some big money deal? it would have made no sense at all to do that.

    I'm glad they didn't even make an attempt.....I'll take Boyd all day over Sanu.

    Jones would have been nice but that was out of our hands.....LaFell wasn't a bad consolation at all though, as it turned out.
    “We are not going in circles, we are going upwards. The path is a spiral; we have already climbed many steps.” --Hermann Hesse, Siddhartha

  36. #116
    at the end of the season I thought Lafell looked much better, once green was hurt. but not sure if was being no green so he focused more , they just used him better or he finally got comfortable in the system.

  37. #117
    I really don't care who the other WR is as long as he can beat single coverage when needed.
    Only users lose drugs

  38. #118
    http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300...er-reshuffling

    Andy Dalton, quarterback, Cincinnati Bengals: Take the worst Bengals offensive line of the Marvin Lewis era, then subtract its best two players. That's what Dalton will be playing behind following the departures of left tackle Andrew Whitworth and right guard Kevin Zeitler. Usually, Dalton could trust that the Bengals' front office, led by Lewis and director of player personnel Duke Tobin, would have homegrown picks in place to survive any free agency departures. But 2015 selections Cedric Ogbuehi and Jake Fisher had mixed results (at best) last season. Dalton was sacked 41 times in 2016, a number that could climb this season.
    Marvin Lewis - the Clapping Clown.

  39. #119
    spicoli's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I_C_DeadPeople View Post
    Dalton was sacked 41 times in 2016, a number that could climb this season.
    and still had arguably the best year of his career......pretty remarkable when you consider he was missing Green and Eifert half the year as well.
    “We are not going in circles, we are going upwards. The path is a spiral; we have already climbed many steps.” --Hermann Hesse, Siddhartha

  40. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by spicoli View Post
    and still had arguably the best year of his career......pretty remarkable when you consider he was missing Green and Eifert half the year as well.
    And no running game to speak of. I am no fan of Dalton, but he is the last on the list of blame for last year's shit show. But the point is the OL will be worse this year - even if the replacements for Whit and Zeitler work well in the long run, the short run will be painful.
    Marvin Lewis - the Clapping Clown.

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