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Thread: Bengals Make a Trade!...

  1. #1

    Bengals Make a Trade!...

    The Bengals traded a conditional 2018 pick for Jacksonville DE Chris Smith. I'm not sure about Smith's contract status I haven't looked that up yet, by I can tell you he is a 4th year player out of Arkansas that has 4.5 sacks and 20 tackles in his career. That's not exactly the kind of stats you want to hear. He's also more Wallace Gilberry size than the rest of the guys. He's only 6'1" and 262 lbs.

    I'm not real sure about this trade, from the sounds of things the Bengals could have gotten a guy like this in the late rounds and had them on a cheaper rookie contract. Smith was a 5th round pick by Jacksonville. Maybe this is a sign the Bengals are trying to fill some roster spots before the draft in order to package some picks to move up in the draft?

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Lewdog View Post
    The Bengals traded a conditional 2018 pick for Jacksonville DE Chris Smith. I'm not sure about Smith's contract status I haven't looked that up yet, by I can tell you he is a 4th year player out of Arkansas that has 4.5 sacks and 20 tackles in his career. That's not exactly the kind of stats you want to hear. He's also more Wallace Gilberry size than the rest of the guys. He's only 6'1" and 262 lbs.

    I'm not real sure about this trade, from the sounds of things the Bengals could have gotten a guy like this in the late rounds and had them on a cheaper rookie contract. Smith was a 5th round pick by Jacksonville. Maybe this is a sign the Bengals are trying to fill some roster spots before the draft in order to package some picks to move up in the draft?
    Mikey does not usually work in complications such as this. This is an odd move for them and to me it signals how weak the team feels it is at this spot. Re-signing Gilberry and then trading for this guy (I am sure it is for a very late round pick) means they want to move on from MJ and perhaps several of the younger guys who have not seemed to develop.
    Marvin Lewis - the Clapping Clown.

  3. #3
    He's a camp body on a 1yr. prove it deal. 1 year left on contract per Spotrac. I don't know what he's like now. Draft info looks like straight line speed was OK, but change of direction not so much. Was projected as a 3-4 OLB. I assume the 2018 draft condition is that he's on the 53 man roster. Of course, this could signal an actual competition at DE, which will of course not happen due to injury (or being out of shape) to one of the competitors who will be kept on the team.

  4. #4
    Administrator Super Cat's Avatar
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    Can you say rotation? He is another body to run in there with Hunt and Peko gone.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by I_C_DeadPeople View Post
    Mikey does not usually work in complications such as this. This is an odd move for them and to me it signals how weak the team feels it is at this spot. Re-signing Gilberry and then trading for this guy (I am sure it is for a very late round pick) means they want to move on from MJ and perhaps several of the younger guys who have not seemed to develop.
    This defies logic. By "moving on" from MJ93 and "younger guys who have not developed" (you are probably referring to Will Clarke or Hardison), you are saying that a mid-year signee from a year ago, and a 20 career tackle unknown, are superior to the others? It makes no sense.
    "This game isn't worth it. The National Football League isn't worth it. There's golf to be played and tennis to be served up and other things to be done out there besides worryin' about a friggin' football game."----The prophet Sam Wyche

  6. #6
    Part of the discussion that should happen with any player is not just related to field play but value. MJ at his cap value is a huge waste of cap space. And clearly some of the younger guys have either not stepped up to take snaps from him or they have been stunted in their growth by ML not liking to play younger guys. I am certainly not saying Smith is better than MJ but the trade itself to me shows the lack of confidence in the current group of the DL group save for Atkins and Dunlap. Smith was a scrub on a poor Jack team and poor DL so why even bother picking him up if you are confident in the group you have plus draft picks.

    I would move on from player like MJ and Pacman just to free up cap space for other players - but the Bengals rarely do that.
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  7. #7
    Bengals9lives's Avatar
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    iam a long time defense fan, and I want to have a strong, and dominating defense. I want DE's that can rush the QB, I want NT's to push hsi way through to cause havoc and I want LB's that tackle and stop running backs from going anywhere., and I want DB's to cover their man like stickem, no interferances, but get that int.

  8. #8
    That is a lot to wish for for ANY fan.
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  9. #9
    spicoli's Avatar
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    they picked up Smith for one simple reason....they don't need 11 draft picks and this is a guy that's been in a pro-system for several years and is of better value to them than a 6th or 7th round pick would be this year.

    I'm sure they scouted him at some point and were intrigued and simply said "let's see what happens" .....this move has absolutely nothing to do with MJ, Hardison, Clark or anyone else on that DL, IMO.
    “We are not going in circles, we are going upwards. The path is a spiral; we have already climbed many steps.” --Hermann Hesse, Siddhartha

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by I_C_DeadPeople View Post
    Part of the discussion that should happen with any player is not just related to field play but value. MJ at his cap value is a huge waste of cap space. And clearly some of the younger guys have either not stepped up to take snaps from him or they have been stunted in their growth by ML not liking to play younger guys. I am certainly not saying Smith is better than MJ but the trade itself to me shows the lack of confidence in the current group of the DL group save for Atkins and Dunlap. Smith was a scrub on a poor Jack team and poor DL so why even bother picking him up if you are confident in the group you have plus draft picks.

    I would move on from player like MJ and Pacman just to free up cap space for other players - but the Bengals rarely do that.
    OK...that clarifies things a bit.

    Smith was a pure rush end at Arkansas, and looks like that was all Jax saw him as too--evidenced by his low amount of snaps during his time there. If trying to find the reasoning for trading a conditional (which will be a 7th rounder if he sticks), I would imagine the defensive coaches saw something which might help get some situational speed off the edges. The old risk/reward thing. Who knows?

    I would still think they are going to try and get another rush end in the draft--and there are a few of them. But even if they do, it will not be with the idea of replacing MJ93 or Clarke, or Hardison. The skill sets of those guys are different than Smith or the draftee(s). You will need them all in a rotation.
    "This game isn't worth it. The National Football League isn't worth it. There's golf to be played and tennis to be served up and other things to be done out there besides worryin' about a friggin' football game."----The prophet Sam Wyche

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by spicoli View Post
    they picked up Smith for one simple reason....they don't need 11 draft picks and this is a guy that's been in a pro-system for several years and is of better value to them than a 6th or 7th round pick would be this year.
    .
    Except we traded a conditional 2018 draft pick for him, so we still have 11 picks this year.

    We can certainly use 11 picks - several for the practice squad and several others will get sore hamstrings and get put on IR.
    Marvin Lewis - the Clapping Clown.

  12. #12
    spicoli's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I_C_DeadPeople View Post
    Except we traded a conditional 2018 draft pick for him, so we still have 11 picks this year.

    We can certainly use 11 picks - several for the practice squad and several others will get sore hamstrings and get put on IR.
    this year or next it's all the same, a guy that's been coached in a pro-system holds more value than these late round picks.

    and there is NO WAY in hell that all 11 of the draft picks this year makes this team, not even factoring in the PS.....it just in't happenin.
    “We are not going in circles, we are going upwards. The path is a spiral; we have already climbed many steps.” --Hermann Hesse, Siddhartha

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by spicoli View Post
    this year or next it's all the same, a guy that's been coached in a pro-system holds more value than these late round picks.

    and there is NO WAY in hell that all 11 of the draft picks this year makes this team, not even factoring in the PS.....it just in't happenin.
    I don't think that's necessarily true at all. If we invest a pick in a guy we'll definitely give him a shot on the PS at the least (though he could be claimed on waivers). And remember we have vets who are not guaranteed spots, like Dawson, Sims, Gilberry, Peerman, even Winston I'd say. And training camp injuries will factor in somehow.

  14. #14
    spicoli's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bengali View Post
    I don't think that's necessarily true at all. If we invest a pick in a guy we'll definitely give him a shot on the PS at the least (though he could be claimed on waivers). And remember we have vets who are not guaranteed spots, like Dawson, Sims, Gilberry, Peerman, even Winston I'd say. And training camp injuries will factor in somehow.
    what's that have to do with the fact that the Bengals obviously saw more value in trading one of next years late round picks for a guy from another system? I just pointed out that I didn't really think it had all that much to do with guys like MJ, Clark, Hardison, etc...they just saw a chance to grab a guy that they must have scouted somewhere along the way.

    and no, 11 draft picks won't make the 2017 roster....IMO, they'll be using a few of those picks as maneuverability in this draft, I'd guess about 8 picks is what they'll end up with when it's all said and done. (plus UDFA's)
    Last edited by spicoli; 04-17-2017 at 07:28 AM.
    “We are not going in circles, we are going upwards. The path is a spiral; we have already climbed many steps.” --Hermann Hesse, Siddhartha

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by spicoli View Post
    what's that have to do with the fact that the Bengals obviously saw more value in trading one of next years late round picks for a guy from another system? I just pointed out that I didn't really think it had all that much to do with guys like MJ, Clark, Hardison, etc...they just saw a chance to grab a guy that they must have scouted somewhere along the way.

    and no, 11 draft picks won't make the 2017 roster....IMO, they'll be using a few of those picks as maneuverability in this draft anyhow, I'd guess about 8 picks is what they'll end up with when it's all said and done. (plus UDFA's)
    Marvin has flat out said he doesn't see how they can draft 11 guys to make the team. They will have to do something, whether it is using them to move up in the draft this year, or trading them away for higher picks next year.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Lewdog View Post
    Marvin has flat out said he doesn't see how they can draft 11 guys to make the team. They will have to do something, whether it is using them to move up in the draft this year, or trading them away for higher picks next year.
    Or as per usual, *saying* they have to do something but then actually not doing it.
    Marvin Lewis - the Clapping Clown.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by spicoli View Post
    what's that have to do with the fact that the Bengals obviously saw more value in trading one of next years late round picks for a guy from another system? I just pointed out that I didn't really think it had all that much to do with guys like MJ, Clark, Hardison, etc...they just saw a chance to grab a guy that they must have scouted somewhere along the way.

    and no, 11 draft picks won't make the 2017 roster....IMO, they'll be using a few of those picks as maneuverability in this draft, I'd guess about 8 picks is what they'll end up with when it's all said and done. (plus UDFA's)
    Well i don't suppose it has to do with that at all. I just tacked on that 11 picks can make the roster. I like the Chris Smith trade.

    the only part I'll concede is that some of those 11 picks might be players they want to stash on the PS, but will be 5th or 6th rounders who won't clear waivers. But we don't have such a world class roster that we can't replace some unproductive vets with hungry rookies.

  18. #18
    A lot of late rounders pass waivers to go on the PS for teams. We have done it plenty of times. At the end of TC, most teams are dealing with their own picks let alone picking up others.
    Marvin Lewis - the Clapping Clown.

  19. #19
    Might the Bengals be involved in a draft day trade?
    http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300...top-nine-picks
    "I had a general manager tell me that two quarterbacks will be taken before the Buffalo Bills pick at No. 10," said NFL Network analyst Charley Casserly. "Two quarterbacks in the top nine. That'd be a shocker."
    I'm sure Mike Brown will find a way to screw this up.
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  20. #20
    What sort of trade would you envision that the Bengals would "screw up"--particularly since I do not see their names mentioned in the article?

    I suppose Buffalo would want Watson so bad, they might want to flip positions with the Bengals...but that is really the only scenario I see. And what would that really benefit either side, and what is the compensation?
    "This game isn't worth it. The National Football League isn't worth it. There's golf to be played and tennis to be served up and other things to be done out there besides worryin' about a friggin' football game."----The prophet Sam Wyche

  21. #21
    He'll ask for too much and get nothing like when he chose Akili Smith over three first round picks('99-'00-'01), the rest of the Saints '99 draft and their third rounder in '00 . . . he wanted four first rounders because his son went to an Oregon game once and claimed that Akili Smith was "lights out". Don't forget, the Colts took James at RB at #4 so when Williams was sitting at #5, Ditka offered less to Washington than he offered the Bengals and they took it.

    Hobson in '99
    http://bengals.enquirer.com/1999/04/...turn_down.html

    The Bengals aren't named in my previous link but their 9th pick is, more or less announcing to the NFL "If you want one of the two top QBs, if you don't trade up high to get one, the Bengals would be your last chance to deal before the Bills grab the 2nd one". If one of the two QBs are still sitting there when the Bengals are on the clock, threaten Buffalo that you have someone on the line that wants to trade up. If one is sitting there at #9 and the Bengals don't trade with Buffalo, Brown will be at fault, imo. Also, with 11 picks this draft, I'd trade down with them for a pick in 2018.
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  22. #22
    spicoli's Avatar
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    Wow, going back 18 years to make a point....well done.

    “We are not going in circles, we are going upwards. The path is a spiral; we have already climbed many steps.” --Hermann Hesse, Siddhartha

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by spicoli View Post
    Wow, going back 18 years to make a point....well done.

    No kidding. The Bengals have made first round moves since then - Chris Perry year and Zeitler come to mind. This year with 11 picks trading down will only be useful if it involves either 2018 picks or if we get more 2017 picks and then use them to trade up in rounds 2-4. And of course, it would only be done if you are sitting at 9 and your board does not have a top 10 player on it left.
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  24. #24
    spicoli's Avatar
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    sounding more and more like one of the more premium players will be sitting there for us at 9....all we have to do is hold our water and see who falls to be rewarded.
    “We are not going in circles, we are going upwards. The path is a spiral; we have already climbed many steps.” --Hermann Hesse, Siddhartha

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by I_C_DeadPeople View Post
    No kidding. The Bengals have made first round moves since then - Chris Perry year and Zeitler come to mind. This year with 11 picks trading down will only be useful if it involves either 2018 picks or if we get more 2017 picks and then use them to trade up in rounds 2-4. And of course, it would only be done if you are sitting at 9 and your board does not have a top 10 player on it left.
    Chris Perry was another mistake. Trade down, trade down, pass on Stephen Jackson, draft an eggshell of a RB.
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  26. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by spicoli View Post
    Wow, going back 18 years to make a point....well done.

    Well, it's not like I have a plethora of Bengals draft day trades to dig through.
    Only users lose drugs

  27. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Pre_hungover View Post
    Chris Perry was another mistake. Trade down, trade down, pass on Stephen Jackson, draft an eggshell of a RB.

    But the mistake was the analysis of the players on the board - not the trade value itself. We traded down two spots because the board said Perry and Jackson had the same value. If Jackson had a bigger spread over Perry then they likely would not have traded.

    There is always 2 components to a draft spot trade - the actual pick value you receive back and then what you do with those extra picks. In the old Akili trade scenario if Akili turned out to be elite then refusing the trade would have been the right move.
    Marvin Lewis - the Clapping Clown.

  28. #28
    Too true. That is why the Draft is still the mother of all crap tables--study all you can, but dice still need to be thrown.
    "This game isn't worth it. The National Football League isn't worth it. There's golf to be played and tennis to be served up and other things to be done out there besides worryin' about a friggin' football game."----The prophet Sam Wyche

  29. #29
    spicoli's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Tigre View Post
    That is why the Draft is still the mother of all crap tables--
    still not even close to the baseball draft though.....now THAT is the mother of all crap tables!
    “We are not going in circles, we are going upwards. The path is a spiral; we have already climbed many steps.” --Hermann Hesse, Siddhartha

  30. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by spicoli View Post
    still not even close to the baseball draft though.....now THAT is the mother of all crap tables!
    Yeah, but they have a minor league system to develop players to rise to the MLB level. They don't take a college kid, put him on the highest level and see if he can adjust. "Crash Or Burn, kid". It was even worse years ago when they were getting ridiculous money.

    LOL

    I was listening to April Wine when posting and I guess I subliminally(stoned) posted Crash Or Burn(they have a song called Crash And Burn)

    I meant Crash or Cash
    Last edited by Pre_hungover; 04-23-2017 at 06:41 PM.
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  31. #31
    Sith Lord ralphmtsu's Avatar
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    I don't see the Bengals moving out of #9. Mike likes his picks and rarely moves. The only thing I could see would be moving down a few spots in the first round while picking up an additional second and fourth round pick. Then using our bevy of picks to bundle and move back into round 1. Regardless of what we do at #9, I can still see us packaging picks to possibly get into the 2nd round again.

    As for the trade, it is blah to me. Conditional 2018 pick for a body. I'm sure the conditional pick is a 6th or 7th rounder regardless of what Smith does on the field. It is one of those fliers with possible upside and low risk. Besides, Gilberry has been a solid performer for us, so if Smith falls into the Gilberry molde, I consider it a net positive.
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