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Thread: The position pick with 9th pick

  1. #81
    If the draft scenario plays out as in my first mock where Fournette, Williams and Trubisky go 4-5-6, and the Bengals do not take OT Cam Robinson, then I think they go with EDGE Taco Charlton followed by Bucknell's OT Julie'n Davenport with a later pick (3rd Rd), as they see him as Ogbuehi 2.0, the perfect OT size that they like and raw as can be.
    "The History of the National Football League proves that most games are won in the last two minutes of the first half or the second half." -- Vince Lombardi.

    "You're either incredibly prepared, or incredibly physically talented."

  2. #82
    war-damn-tiger #1 italian fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandwedge View Post
    I wouldn't be upset with that draft. The only person I would have a concern with is McDowell. Most scouting reports I have seen, pretty much say the samething, lazy takes plays off, doesn't pllay to potential.
    Gonzalez would have to adjust to not kicking at altitude but that shouldn't be a big deal. If we got Ben Boulware in the 6th, I would be ecstatic! Kid id just a hard nose footballer!! Also maybe Perinne instead of Hunt??
    McDowell: lazy takes plays off, doesn't play to potential ... looks like the Carlos profile, I mean
    Dunlap: there are serious character questions surrounding Dunlap including a DUI arrest. He's also inconsistent with his work ethic. Dunlap can be an inconsistent reactor whose production fails to match his physical tools


    Perine, Samaje RB 5'11" 233 4,65 Oklahoma 5.6
    Hunt, Kareem RB 5'10" 216 4,62 Toledo 5.5 . . . . . . . almost equal speed and grade

    Perine is a physical runner who can create additional yardage through power and can be a complimentary "banger" for a team who already has a slasher. Perine doesn't have the burst or play speed to be a dynamic lead back, but he can handle a heavy workload if needed and he should become an immediate short-yardage and goal-line option.

    Hunt is a Big back with plus vision and enough elusiveness to make the first defender miss. Feel for the rushing lane helps him choose the correct path between the tackles but lacks the burst to turn the 4-yard run into 14. Zone-scheme runner with serviceable hands out of the backfield. Adequate in most areas and has talent to become a backup that can step in and handle a bigger load if needed.


    BOTTOM LINE
    If we're going to cut Hill next year maybe you're right, we need the big back Perine

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Bengali View Post
    No, not what I'm saying. I'm saying he wasn't the best player on the board, or at least not on a board that was accurate, and it wasn't a need. And no he wasn't the highest rated OT. He was part of a big group of tackles, but his draft projection was all over the place both before and after the injury. My problem is not that it offended Whit, it's that Ogbuehi's presence becomes the excuse for not giving Whit another 2 million. You can't deny we'd be better off now if we had Whit at the same contract the Rams gave him, we didn't have Ogbuehi at all, and we instead had Shane Ray or Bud Dupree. And I knew that at the time, so don't give me the "hindsight vision" argument.
    So having a 35 year old Whitworth and no replacement tackle in sight is better off? And your "if"(more conjecture) they took Bud Dupree or Shane Ray argument is ridiculous. Do you think that someone that's playing well somewhere else will fit right into Cincinnati and not miss a beat? They're playing well on well coached teams in a 3-4 defense. Cincinnati is not well coached and they run a 4-3. Sorry, but to think they'll pop in and be just as effective as they are in their respective defenses is pure fantasy.


    Quote Originally Posted by Bengali View Post
    Precisely what I mean by straw man argument. You "came into the conversation" three or four steps into it.
    Keep moving those goal posts. I came into the OT conversation in step two, you had post #38 and #40, I had #41 so don't give me your revisionist hindsight argument. You don't want people chiming in then don't post it on a public messageboard, go the PM route. You're upset that Whitworth will not retire as a Bengal. You would have handled it differently. We get it.
    Only users lose drugs

  4. #84
    Administrator Super Cat's Avatar
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    He can still retire a Bengal. Many have retire Bengals without playing another game for them.

  5. #85
    So some of the Wonderlic scores have leaked... and I have to say, college athletes are getting a free pass in the academics department. Some of the scores for some of the top players are simply a joke.

    Joe Mixon RB Oklahoma 12
    Dion Dawkins T Temple 12
    Leonard Fournette RB LSU 11
    Dalvin Cook RB Florida State 11
    Reuben Foster LB Alabama 9
    Garett Bolles T Utah 9

    How the f uck can you expect Foster to learn a defense well enough to make the calls and defensive audibles? And there is no way I'd draft an OT that can't reach double digits in the Wonderlic.

  6. #86
    What I would like to see is an impact safety. The Bengals have not had anyone that the opposition has needed to account for since Fulcher. We need our own Reed, or TP(hair). Does not have to be with #9, but would like to see it in round 2 or 3.

  7. #87
    Administrator Super Cat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lewdog View Post
    So some of the Wonderlic scores have leaked... and I have to say, college athletes are getting a free pass in the academics department. Some of the scores for some of the top players are simply a joke.

    Joe Mixon RB Oklahoma 12
    Dion Dawkins T Temple 12
    Leonard Fournette RB LSU 11
    Dalvin Cook RB Florida State 11
    Reuben Foster LB Alabama 9
    Garett Bolles T Utah 9

    How the f uck can you expect Foster to learn a defense well enough to make the calls and defensive audibles? And there is no way I'd draft an OT that can't reach double digits in the Wonderlic.
    You can say they are getting a free pass or you can say they aren't being taught. Looking at the school systems lately, it seems they are more worried about politics than they are teaching our children. It be the professors couldn't past the wonderlic.

  8. #88
    Steelers are showing a lot of interest in DeShone Kizer - just an FYI
    Marvin Lewis - the Clapping Clown.

  9. #89
    spicoli's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I_C_DeadPeople View Post
    Steelers are showing a lot of interest in DeShone Kizer - just an FYI
    Good, they can have him.....million dollar arm with a ten cent head.

    he definitely ain't no Ben Rapistburger, that's for sure.
    “We are not going in circles, we are going upwards. The path is a spiral; we have already climbed many steps.” --Hermann Hesse, Siddhartha

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by I_C_DeadPeople View Post
    Steelers are showing a lot of interest in DeShone Kizer - just an FYI
    More power to them! If they do, they will be back looking for another QB next year.

  11. #91
    war-damn-tiger #1 italian fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I_C_DeadPeople View Post
    Steelers are showing a lot of interest in DeShone Kizer - just an FYI
    I read last week they actually want Mahomes (no way) or Peterman (very possible)

  12. #92
    Mahomes is the only QB on the Gruden QB camp that I like. It would suck if Pittsburgh took him.
    Only users lose drugs

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by Lewdog View Post
    So some of the Wonderlic scores have leaked... and I have to say, college athletes are getting a free pass in the academics department. Some of the scores for some of the top players are simply a joke.

    Joe Mixon RB Oklahoma 12
    Dion Dawkins T Temple 12
    Leonard Fournette RB LSU 11
    Dalvin Cook RB Florida State 11
    Reuben Foster LB Alabama 9
    Garett Bolles T Utah 9

    How the f uck can you expect Foster to learn a defense well enough to make the calls and defensive audibles? And there is no way I'd draft an OT that can't reach double digits in the Wonderlic.
    Beyond QB, no one really cares about Wonderlic scores. Some agents would give a copy of the test to their client. A chemist usually scores around 31. Aaron Rodgers scored a 35, Andy Dalton scored a 29, and Greg McElroy scored a 48

    AJ Green scored 10. It really has no correlation to football in my opinion. If you ever watch the film about college football called "The Program" you see a linebacker who cannot read nor care about his academic curriculum within the film sit in a linebackers meeting and call out formations and assignments like a genius. Academic scholarship is not these guy's path and they know it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Super Cat View Post
    You can say they are getting a free pass or you can say they aren't being taught. Looking at the school systems lately, it seems they are more worried about politics than they are teaching our children. It be the professors couldn't past the wonderlic.
    This could not be further from the truth. The history teacher in Fast Times at Ridgemont High, Mr. Hand, where Spicoli orders a pizza was professionally dressed and was extremely knowledge about the subject matter he was teaching. Now, teachers complain that their job is too hard, wear hoodies and jeans to work, and bring in identity politics into History, English, Math, Music, Art, and Science courses. Chicago is a war-zone and the teacher's keep asking for raises and their pension fund is causing Illinois to be on the brink of bankruptcy. Ridiculous, teaching is a rigorous job, but you're finished at 3 pm, have Christmas, Spring-Break, and a summer off with a full year's worth of pay. Unfortunately, teachers have forgotten that if one can read, write, and perform mathematics that kids will be able to get a job rather than caring if Sally or Bob get a hand-out from the government because the government is obligated to care of people. End rant.

    When Roethlisberger retires, somehow the NFL will just give them another Franchise QB. Kizer sucks, zero leadership skills.

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by BengalCP9 View Post
    Beyond QB, no one really cares about Wonderlic scores. Some agents would give a copy of the test to their client. A chemist usually scores around 31. Aaron Rodgers scored a 35, Andy Dalton scored a 29, and Greg McElroy scored a 48

    AJ Green scored 10. It really has no correlation to football in my opinion. If you ever watch the film about college football called "The Program" you see a linebacker who cannot read nor care about his academic curriculum within the film sit in a linebackers meeting and call out formations and assignments like a genius. Academic scholarship is not these guy's path and they know it.



    This could not be further from the truth. The history teacher in Fast Times at Ridgemont High, Mr. Hand, where Spicoli orders a pizza was professionally dressed and was extremely knowledge about the subject matter he was teaching. Now, teachers complain that their job is too hard, wear hoodies and jeans to work, and bring in identity politics into History, English, Math, Music, Art, and Science courses. Chicago is a war-zone and the teacher's keep asking for raises and their pension fund is causing Illinois to be on the brink of bankruptcy. Ridiculous, teaching is a rigorous job, but you're finished at 3 pm, have Christmas, Spring-Break, and a summer off with a full year's worth of pay. Unfortunately, teachers have forgotten that if one can read, write, and perform mathematics that kids will be able to get a job rather than caring if Sally or Bob get a hand-out from the government because the government is obligated to care of people. End rant.

    When Roethlisberger retires, somehow the NFL will just give them another Franchise QB. Kizer sucks, zero leadership skills.
    I find it extremely hard to take anything you say seriously when you reference fictional movies as the basis for your argument.

  15. #95
    Lol, way to demonstrate cognitive dissonance......."Personal Attack: A personal attack without reason is among the strongest tells. That means the person being attacked has been so persuasive that it is shaking someone else’s self-image."

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by BengalCP9 View Post
    Lol, way to demonstrate cognitive dissonance......."Personal Attack: A personal attack without reason is among the strongest tells. That means the person being attacked has been so persuasive that it is shaking someone else’s self-image."
    No...you used a FICTIONAL movie to support your argument about a REAL LIFE situation. Next thing you will be talking about Paul Brown's angel picking up AJ Green to help him make a hail Mary catch because you saw it in a Disney movie once.

  17. #97
    Again, you demonstrate cognitive dissonance.

    You also seem unaware that Wonderlic scores are a very old metric and that personnel departments put very little stock into the test.

    Terry Bradshaw had a wonderlic score of 16. Dan Marino received a score of 15. Frank Gore received 6.

    Did the wonderlic have any correlation to how well they did in the NFL? No. It is an antiquated test. Andy Dalton scored 29 and Peyton Manning scored 28.

    Lol, if you want to make this a serious intellectual discussion regarding the Wonderlic, please write Edward Krupat, Ph.D. former Director of the Center for Evaluation at Harvard Medical School or present an equal and persuasive argument to dismiss his logic:

    https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/03/02/nf...raft-prospects

    "As the Director of the Center for Evaluation at Harvard Medical School for 14 years, it was my job to determine the best ways of assessing whether our students would make good doctors. When thinking about the combine and the NFL draft, I cannot help but see many parallels between the challenges faced by medical schools and pro sports teams in figuring out who will be a star and who will fall by the wayside. All of the students at Harvard have grades that go through the roof, just as the combine invitees have extraordinary athletic skills. But do they also have those other factors that will help them become the next great surgeon? Do they have that other something that makes them more likely to become the next Peyton Manning rather than the next Ryan Leaf?

    What has struck me in observing both talent pools is that regardless of how well they did in school, no matter what their IQ is, some candidates are really smart in ways that are unrelated to grades and tests. These “smart” people become stars in their respective fields. Others just don’t have the sense that makes them successful practitioners of their art, whether on the football field or in the doctor’s office. It has been my job to understand what to measure, how to measure it, and how to provide a metric by which we can compare one person to another. In medicine, this is an art and science that has made significant strides, but is far from perfect. In football, the gap between data that is meaningful and useful and data that is readily available is deep and wide.

    This week in Indianapolis, 330 prospects are being poked, prodded, observed and measured in almost every way possible at the NFL scouting combine. NFL talent evaluators will ponder the implications of every slow 40-yard dash time. They will wonder about the ability of a smallish defensive back to outlift a couple of the big-name defensive linemen. And they may have to try to figure out what to make of an otherwise hot quarterback’s score of 17 on the Wonderlic Test.

    The Wonderlic has become the NFL’s standardized IQ test, a measure that proposes to determine how smart a football player is. In the 1970s, legendary Cowboys coach Tom Landry began administering an aptitude test developed by the psychologist Eldon F. Wonderlic that had been used in other industries for decades to make hiring decisions about clerks and managers. Based on Landry’s recommendation, the test was adopted by the NFL and administered to every player at the combine. The Wonderlic contains 50 items to be completed in just 12 minutes, and offers test-takers the kinds of mental challenges high school kids hate facing on college entrance tests. The questions range from math problems (What’s the next number in the following sequence…) to vocabulary questions (Are the words “respectable” and “responsible” similar, different, or unrelated?).

    The concept makes sense: If a team wants to place a premium on selecting “smart” players, then why not give everyone a test? If nothing else, the Wonderlic puts players under time pressures and requires them to have the ability to read. But will a large vocabulary help the next J.J. Watt get to the quarterback? Should the next Aaron Rodgers have a better understanding of calculus than his peers?

    The only perfect Wonderlic score of 50 ever achieved was by Bengals punter Pat McInally, who just happened to be a graduate of Harvard. The highest quarterback score, 48, was received by Ryan Fitzpatrick, a graduate of ... Harvard. At the other end of the Wonderlic spectrum, Dan Marino got a woefully low score of 15, but no one ever accused him of not being smart enough to find open receivers. Ray Lewis wasn’t much better, with a score of 16, but that didn’t seem to keep him from outthinking offensive coordinators and stuffing runners in the backfield.

    In an attempt to look for qualities that are more closely associated with football, the NFL began to administer the Player Assessment Tool in 2013. This one-hour test, devised by an employment lawyer and a psychology professor, borrows closely from the principles used to select firefighters and attempts to assess motivation, learning styles, and other psychological attributes as well as various mental abilities. While clearly a step in the right direction, this new test in predicting football productivity hasn’t been around long enough to be deemed a success yet.

    So what kind of a test does the NFL need? First, it should be free of the cultural and racial biases that the Wonderlic and many other cognitive and psychological tests have been accused of. Second, it should be a test that is hard to game. Players and their agents shouldn’t be able to figure out what evaluators want to hear so that they can offer up answers that will make them look good, regardless of what they truly think or believe. Third, the test should be predictive of on-field performance. Players’ scores should correlate with some index of NFL success—at least one study suggests that the Wonderlic holds virtually no correlation with the player’s NFL future. Most importantly, the tests should be at the cutting edge of how psychologists think about intelligence today and based on modern cognitive science.

    Howard Gardner, a professor at the Harvard School of Education, has noted the need to broaden our definition of intelligence beyond the kinds of knowledge and skills tested in the Wonderlic. According to Gardner, intelligence includes “the potential to process information ... to solve problems and create products that are of value,” and encompasses interpersonal abilities and self-reflection as much as it does book learning. Gardner’s “smart” wide receiver might not know how to calculate square roots, but he would be able to discuss coverages with his quarterback, adjust his pattern at the line of scrimmage and reflect on his errors in order to correct them.

    From this elasticized version of intelligence has come the concept of emotional intelligence (EI), which merges people’s thoughts with their feelings to lay the foundation for a person’s capacity for leadership and teamwork. Peter Salovey, a social psychologist who is the current president of Yale, described EI as a set of skills that allow people to use emotions rather than to let them get in the way, noting that a person’s ability to monitor his own and others’ emotions can guide thinking, improve decision-making and help with problem solving.

    Football merges head and heart: Like students in school, players are constantly involved in film study and have to learn the playbook. Once on the field, they have to be able to read coverages and make sense of formations. Football is also a game of emotion, but smart football players also learn to manage their emotions and use them productively.

    Those demands simply make the Wonderlic—with all due respect to Landry—an outdated way of thinking about intelligence when it comes to predicting performance on the football field, and it’s still unclear how much the PAT adds to the conversation.

    Perhaps someday NFL talent evaluators will devise a better way of assessing intellect and emotion together, developing a metric that can be a valuable guide to predicting who will succeed and who will fail. For now, however, measuring the elusive quality of football smarts remains the most imprecise of imprecise sciences. "

    http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/08959280902970401

    Not Much More Than g? An Examination of the Impact of Intelligence on NFL Performance
    Brian D. Lyons , Brian J. Hoffman & John W. Michel

    Abstract

    The purpose of this study was to determine the efficiency and equity of general mental ability (GMA) in a nontraditional employment setting—professional football. The National Football League (NFL) uses a measure of GMA, the Wonderlic Personnel Test, to evaluate potential draftees in an assessment-style environment. A total of 762 NFL players, represented from three draft classes, were included in our sample. In terms of efficiency, results indicated that GMA was unrelated to (a) future NFL performance, (b) selection decisions during the NFL Draft, and (c) the number of games started in the NFL. In regards to equity, differential prediction analyses by race suggested only the existence of intercept bias. The implications of these findings to the NFL and the selection literature are further discussed.

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by BengalCP9 View Post
    Again, you demonstrate cognitive dissonance.

    You also seem unaware that Wonderlic scores are a very old metric and that personnel departments put very little stock into the test.

    Terry Bradshaw had a wonderlic score of 16. Dan Marino received a score of 15. Frank Gore received 6.

    Did the wonderlic have any correlation to how well they did in the NFL? No. It is an antiquated test. Andy Dalton scored 29 and Peyton Manning scored 28.

    Lol, if you want to make this a serious intellectual discussion regarding the Wonderlic, please write Edward Krupat, Ph.D. former Director of the Center for Evaluation at Harvard Medical School or present an equal and persuasive argument to dismiss his logic:

    https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/03/02/nf...raft-prospects

    "As the Director of the Center for Evaluation at Harvard Medical School for 14 years, it was my job to determine the best ways of assessing whether our students would make good doctors. When thinking about the combine and the NFL draft, I cannot help but see many parallels between the challenges faced by medical schools and pro sports teams in figuring out who will be a star and who will fall by the wayside. All of the students at Harvard have grades that go through the roof, just as the combine invitees have extraordinary athletic skills. But do they also have those other factors that will help them become the next great surgeon? Do they have that other something that makes them more likely to become the next Peyton Manning rather than the next Ryan Leaf?

    What has struck me in observing both talent pools is that regardless of how well they did in school, no matter what their IQ is, some candidates are really smart in ways that are unrelated to grades and tests. These “smart” people become stars in their respective fields. Others just don’t have the sense that makes them successful practitioners of their art, whether on the football field or in the doctor’s office. It has been my job to understand what to measure, how to measure it, and how to provide a metric by which we can compare one person to another. In medicine, this is an art and science that has made significant strides, but is far from perfect. In football, the gap between data that is meaningful and useful and data that is readily available is deep and wide.

    This week in Indianapolis, 330 prospects are being poked, prodded, observed and measured in almost every way possible at the NFL scouting combine. NFL talent evaluators will ponder the implications of every slow 40-yard dash time. They will wonder about the ability of a smallish defensive back to outlift a couple of the big-name defensive linemen. And they may have to try to figure out what to make of an otherwise hot quarterback’s score of 17 on the Wonderlic Test.

    The Wonderlic has become the NFL’s standardized IQ test, a measure that proposes to determine how smart a football player is. In the 1970s, legendary Cowboys coach Tom Landry began administering an aptitude test developed by the psychologist Eldon F. Wonderlic that had been used in other industries for decades to make hiring decisions about clerks and managers. Based on Landry’s recommendation, the test was adopted by the NFL and administered to every player at the combine. The Wonderlic contains 50 items to be completed in just 12 minutes, and offers test-takers the kinds of mental challenges high school kids hate facing on college entrance tests. The questions range from math problems (What’s the next number in the following sequence…) to vocabulary questions (Are the words “respectable” and “responsible” similar, different, or unrelated?).

    The concept makes sense: If a team wants to place a premium on selecting “smart” players, then why not give everyone a test? If nothing else, the Wonderlic puts players under time pressures and requires them to have the ability to read. But will a large vocabulary help the next J.J. Watt get to the quarterback? Should the next Aaron Rodgers have a better understanding of calculus than his peers?

    The only perfect Wonderlic score of 50 ever achieved was by Bengals punter Pat McInally, who just happened to be a graduate of Harvard. The highest quarterback score, 48, was received by Ryan Fitzpatrick, a graduate of ... Harvard. At the other end of the Wonderlic spectrum, Dan Marino got a woefully low score of 15, but no one ever accused him of not being smart enough to find open receivers. Ray Lewis wasn’t much better, with a score of 16, but that didn’t seem to keep him from outthinking offensive coordinators and stuffing runners in the backfield.

    In an attempt to look for qualities that are more closely associated with football, the NFL began to administer the Player Assessment Tool in 2013. This one-hour test, devised by an employment lawyer and a psychology professor, borrows closely from the principles used to select firefighters and attempts to assess motivation, learning styles, and other psychological attributes as well as various mental abilities. While clearly a step in the right direction, this new test in predicting football productivity hasn’t been around long enough to be deemed a success yet.

    So what kind of a test does the NFL need? First, it should be free of the cultural and racial biases that the Wonderlic and many other cognitive and psychological tests have been accused of. Second, it should be a test that is hard to game. Players and their agents shouldn’t be able to figure out what evaluators want to hear so that they can offer up answers that will make them look good, regardless of what they truly think or believe. Third, the test should be predictive of on-field performance. Players’ scores should correlate with some index of NFL success—at least one study suggests that the Wonderlic holds virtually no correlation with the player’s NFL future. Most importantly, the tests should be at the cutting edge of how psychologists think about intelligence today and based on modern cognitive science.

    Howard Gardner, a professor at the Harvard School of Education, has noted the need to broaden our definition of intelligence beyond the kinds of knowledge and skills tested in the Wonderlic. According to Gardner, intelligence includes “the potential to process information ... to solve problems and create products that are of value,” and encompasses interpersonal abilities and self-reflection as much as it does book learning. Gardner’s “smart” wide receiver might not know how to calculate square roots, but he would be able to discuss coverages with his quarterback, adjust his pattern at the line of scrimmage and reflect on his errors in order to correct them.

    From this elasticized version of intelligence has come the concept of emotional intelligence (EI), which merges people’s thoughts with their feelings to lay the foundation for a person’s capacity for leadership and teamwork. Peter Salovey, a social psychologist who is the current president of Yale, described EI as a set of skills that allow people to use emotions rather than to let them get in the way, noting that a person’s ability to monitor his own and others’ emotions can guide thinking, improve decision-making and help with problem solving.

    Football merges head and heart: Like students in school, players are constantly involved in film study and have to learn the playbook. Once on the field, they have to be able to read coverages and make sense of formations. Football is also a game of emotion, but smart football players also learn to manage their emotions and use them productively.

    Those demands simply make the Wonderlic—with all due respect to Landry—an outdated way of thinking about intelligence when it comes to predicting performance on the football field, and it’s still unclear how much the PAT adds to the conversation.

    Perhaps someday NFL talent evaluators will devise a better way of assessing intellect and emotion together, developing a metric that can be a valuable guide to predicting who will succeed and who will fail. For now, however, measuring the elusive quality of football smarts remains the most imprecise of imprecise sciences. "

    http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/08959280902970401

    Not Much More Than g? An Examination of the Impact of Intelligence on NFL Performance
    Brian D. Lyons , Brian J. Hoffman & John W. Michel

    Abstract

    The purpose of this study was to determine the efficiency and equity of general mental ability (GMA) in a nontraditional employment setting—professional football. The National Football League (NFL) uses a measure of GMA, the Wonderlic Personnel Test, to evaluate potential draftees in an assessment-style environment. A total of 762 NFL players, represented from three draft classes, were included in our sample. In terms of efficiency, results indicated that GMA was unrelated to (a) future NFL performance, (b) selection decisions during the NFL Draft, and (c) the number of games started in the NFL. In regards to equity, differential prediction analyses by race suggested only the existence of intercept bias. The implications of these findings to the NFL and the selection literature are further discussed.
    I don't give two rat shits at what you say at this point... you used a FICTIONAL movie to represent your point. Do you know what the word FICTIONAL means? And as hard as you try to put lipstick on a pig at this point, you can not recover from the fact you use a FICTIONAL movie to defend your argument.

  19. #99
    Well, what do you think about Krupat's article and the study performed by Lyons, Hoffman, and Michel?

    You imply that Wonderlic scores do matter, yet you present no counter argument.

  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by BengalCP9 View Post
    Well, what do you think about Krupat's article and the study performed by Lyons, Hoffman, and Michel?

    You imply that Wonderlic scores do matter, yet you present no counter argument.
    My argument? If it didn't matter they wouldn't still be using 50 YEARS later. And your examples? Have you ever heard of the "Exception" fallacy? Not to mention articles like the one you posted actually harm players that take the test, because the players don't take the test seriously, and it affects their performance.

  21. #101
    CP9, I have to agree with you when you said Wonderlic score matters when it comes to QB's. It didn't matter during Bradshaw's and Marino's time, but it does during Dalton's and anyone since. Schemes are far too complicated and the ability to recognize them and react to them "successfully" requires more natural intelligence than Deshaun Watson demonstrated he possesses with his "20" score, a score that was coached up before he took it, so he's even worse than that, below Bradshaw and Marino when nobody was getting coached up for the test.

    I liked your rant, btw.

    Would you pause from Lewdog's posts for a moment and comment on the last one I responded to you about (post #80) when you get the time? Thanks.
    "The History of the National Football League proves that most games are won in the last two minutes of the first half or the second half." -- Vince Lombardi.

    "You're either incredibly prepared, or incredibly physically talented."

  22. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by Le Tigre View Post
    Interesting mock, Blazer. Robinson, while not 2009 Andre Smith, has skills that neither Fisher or Ced possess--pure power. Has always played LT, but so did Andre in school. Durable as well. To me anyway, this guy would not be a reach in any way shape or form.

    (And sorry the Rose Garden Lads had to draw GS in the Playoffs. They have been plucky however, so looks like a good future for them. And--I now have seen my "must-have" jersey...those Rip City shirts are amazing!)
    I'm looking forward to the Bengals' picks and UDFA's, and Summer Free Agent acquisitions. I've never seen them spend this much money (not even half this much as they spent several weeks out West alone), personally interview and work out this many players and been this diversified in their search for talent. They are heavily prepared for this year's group of draftees. A ton of talent will be coming into camp. Veterans need to earn their jobs this year regardless of Marvin's past reluctance to playing younger guys. Lewis' job is on the line and he won't have final say on who makes the team.

    Blazers have an unbalanced roster. They have the 15th, 20th, 26th, and one 2nd Rdr that Allen will purchase.

    I'm hoping for three from this group:

    PF John Collins of Wake Forest
    SF/PF Tyler Lydon of Gonzaga
    SG/SF Justin Jackson of North Carolina
    PF Jordan Bell of Oregon
    SF Wesley Iwundu of Kansas State
    PG Nigel Williams-Goss of Gonzaga
    C Moses Kingsley of Arkansas

    (posted that on another site back on March 31st, and nothing has changed for me, as I still want to see 3 or 4, but at least 3 from this group in our Summer Camp).

    Back to the nfl draft...
    "The History of the National Football League proves that most games are won in the last two minutes of the first half or the second half." -- Vince Lombardi.

    "You're either incredibly prepared, or incredibly physically talented."

  23. #103
    Here's my best guess for the top 8 picks:

    Cle - Myles Garrett. (I hear the Trubisky chatter but don't buy it. Either they think SF wants Trubisky and they're trying to trick them into a trade, or the NFL didn't like the first overall pick being known so they leaked some false rumors.)
    SF - Mitch Trubisky
    Chicago - Deshaun Watson
    Jax - Leonard Fournette
    Ten - OJ Howard. (They wanted to trade out but with both QBs off the board they can't).
    NYJ - Marshon Lattimore
    LAC - Jamal Adams
    Car - Christian McCafffrey (Could go Solomon Thomas, but they've actually sunk a fair amount of $ into the DE position and have a solid rotation. Nobody spectacular, but why add another rotational guy in a draft loaded with rotational guys).

    So that leaves Thomas for us. Was I sub-consciously dropping him down because I wanted him there for us? Perhaps. But I doubt the chargers take him, since they drafted Bosa last year and still have Liuget. The whole reason the Jets want to deal Richardson is that they already have two 3-4 ends. Could happen.

  24. #104
    By the way, I live about a 5-10 minute walk from where the draft is being held in Philadelphia (the 'Rocky steps'). I'll definitely be there tonight. If I get any good photos I'll post them.

  25. #105
    Jed Yost is a terrible liar. They have zero interest in Trubisky.

    CLE will trade with TEN and take him there letting Williams fall into the Bengals' lap where they will gladly scoop him up.
    "The History of the National Football League proves that most games are won in the last two minutes of the first half or the second half." -- Vince Lombardi.

    "You're either incredibly prepared, or incredibly physically talented."

  26. #106
    In the minority shebengal's Avatar
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    FWIW-ESPN's Mock Draft show last night had us taking Reuben Foster.
    The Cincinnati Enquirer has us taking Jonathan Allen.
    "She's a Browns fan. She doesn't know anything about the playoffs." Chuck Todd referring to Kelly O'Donnell on "Meet the Press"

    "The Browns are so low in national esteem that they troll the football equivalent of the thermal vents at the bottom of the Marianas Trench in the Pacific. This is the deepest point on the surface of the earth. Strange creatures live there and also in Berea." Bill Livingston-The Plain Dealer

  27. #107
    I still say snag Hooker if he's there. Push Williams to the bench.

    Have fun, Bengali. Should be a wild time!
    Only users lose drugs

  28. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by BlazerBenner View Post
    CP9, I have to agree with you when you said Wonderlic score matters when it comes to QB's. It didn't matter during Bradshaw's and Marino's time, but it does during Dalton's and anyone since. Schemes are far too complicated and the ability to recognize them and react to them "successfully" requires more natural intelligence than Deshaun Watson demonstrated he possesses with his "20" score, a score that was coached up before he took it, so he's even worse than that, below Bradshaw and Marino when nobody was getting coached up for the test.

    I liked your rant, btw.

    Would you pause from Lewdog's posts for a moment and comment on the last one I responded to you about (post #80) when you get the time? Thanks.
    I wouldn't be surprised at all if we draft a defensive back early. I guess the idea is that we are in a nickel 70% of the times anyways and if we have a swarming secondary, that will allow the pass rush to get to the quarterback. Conley will drop, maybe even to the third round. Conley is 6'0 and if the Bengals are 99% the accusations are fake, they take a chance on him. The other defensive back we might look at is Sidney Jones who ruptured his Achilles tendon. Nick Cosgray rehabbed Leon Hall from a ruptured Achilles and that may not scare the Bengals away from drafting Jones. Like Conley, Jones is 6'0. If something strange happens and Lattimore and Adams drops, the Bengals would pick them or even Hooker. But the other prospects you mentioned are good too, I don't know too much about them except this is a loaded draft for defensive backs. Rd 2-3 they'll go after a DB, DE, or RB.

    The Bengals like to take injured players with potential who fall, Sidney Jones has that written all over him and Lewis rarely lets rookie defensive backs play anyway and they will not re-sign Dennard and Pacman will be suspended for some games.

  29. #109
    When I see a mock that still has us taking Rueben Foster, I make a mental note to stop looking at that person's mocks. A few months ago it made sense. Not now. We're not taking Foster, and I really doubt any LB.

    I think it's going to be a De or a Wr.

  30. #110
    My Final Mock

    1. CLE - Garrett, DE, Texas A&M
    2. SF - Adams, S, LSU
    3. CHI - Lattimore, CB, Ohio St
    4. JAX - Fournette, RB, LSU
    5. CLE - Trubisky, QB, North Carolina
    6. NYJ - Hooker, S, Ohio St
    7. LAC - Allen, DT, Alabama
    8. CAR - Thomas, EDGE, Stanford
    9. CIN - Williams, WR, Clemson
    10. BUF - Mahomes, QB, Texas Tech
    11. NOS - Charlton, DE, Michigan
    12. TEN - Howard, TE, Alabama
    13. ARI - Foster, ILB, Alabama
    14. PHI - Ross, WR, Washington
    15. IND - Bolles, OT, Utah
    16. DEN - McCaffrey, RB, Stanford
    17. WAS - Reddick, OLB, Temple
    18. TEN - Davis, WR, Western Michigan
    19. TAM - Lamp, G, Western Kentucky
    20. BAL - Harris, EDGE, Missouri
    21. DET - Wormley, EDGE, Michigan
    22. MIA - Melifonwu, S, Connecticut
    23. NYG - Robinson, OT, Alabama
    24. OAK - Awuzie, CB, Colorado
    25. HOU - Ramcyzk, OT, Wisconsin
    26. SEA - McDowell, DT, Michigan St
    27. KCC - Webb, QB, California
    28. DAL - Watt, OLB, Wisconsin
    29. ATL - Barnett, DE, Tennessee
    30. PIT - McKinley, OLB, UCLA
    31. GBP - Mixon, RB, Oklahoma
    32. NOS - Kpassignon, DE, Villanova
    "The History of the National Football League proves that most games are won in the last two minutes of the first half or the second half." -- Vince Lombardi.

    "You're either incredibly prepared, or incredibly physically talented."

  31. #111
    spicoli's Avatar
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    I don't see Williams as a fit for this team really....IMO they're looking to add speed, speed and more speed to that group and that definitely leaves Williams out of the equation.

    I think it's going to be Allen at 9 or a trade down.

    Keep an eye on Charles Harris though, kid is a flat out monster off the edge.
    “We are not going in circles, we are going upwards. The path is a spiral; we have already climbed many steps.” --Hermann Hesse, Siddhartha

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