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Thread: 2017 NFL Draft Day Three

  1. #161
    Administrator Super Cat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lewdog View Post
    Alexander was a TE coach in 1994.
    For Braham first year where he played 3 games. Braham played guard until 1999, then Alexander moved him to center.

    List of 1st and 2nd round picks under Alexander.
    Willie Anderson, Levi Jones, Eric Stienbach, Andrew Whitworth, Andre Smith, and Kevin Zeitler. Then add Fisher and Ogbuehi.

    Six players in 20 years plus.

  2. #162
    Quote Originally Posted by spicoli View Post
    Glasgow can play, for sure.....nice insurance in case Billings doesn't pan out for whatever reason.
    He could play Guard, as his SPARQ and others suggest would be his best position.
    "The History of the National Football League proves that most games are won in the last two minutes of the first half or the second half." -- Vince Lombardi.

    "You're either incredibly prepared, or incredibly physically talented."

  3. #163
    Quote Originally Posted by furnbuff View Post
    Wait, wait, wait!

    I know what they're doing. They're going to convert all these defensive players to O linemen. What genius!
    The Paul Alexander school of Lineman development. Andre Smith is an alum going back to school.
    "The History of the National Football League proves that most games are won in the last two minutes of the first half or the second half." -- Vince Lombardi.

    "You're either incredibly prepared, or incredibly physically talented."

  4. #164
    Sith Lord ralphmtsu's Avatar
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    Okay, maybe the braintrust knows more than us. What if Ced and Fisher have been in the books all off-season. That would make me feel better. They were high picks for a reason. My biggest concern is the turd who hikes the ball. The OL isn't total crap, but it is full of question marks. Maybe we will be pleasantly surprised with the answers. All I know now is that with Ross, Andy can release the ball a few nano-seconds earlier to prevent him from being human pinata.
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  5. #165
    Quote Originally Posted by #1 italian fan View Post
    but we are really without backup at LT ... who have right now ... Winston?

    davemport was available right there under their nose
    Boling should be the starting LT with Ogbuehi the backup, but they won"t do that. Boling is the backup.
    "The History of the National Football League proves that most games are won in the last two minutes of the first half or the second half." -- Vince Lombardi.

    "You're either incredibly prepared, or incredibly physically talented."

  6. #166
    Administrator Super Cat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlazerBenner View Post
    Boling should be the starting LT with Ogbuehi the backup, but they won"t do that. Boling is the backup.
    Boling should be the center.

  7. #167
    Quote Originally Posted by Pre_hungover View Post
    So does this push Sims or Hardison off of the roster?
    Not a chance on Sims, but Hardison has to step up.
    "The History of the National Football League proves that most games are won in the last two minutes of the first half or the second half." -- Vince Lombardi.

    "You're either incredibly prepared, or incredibly physically talented."

  8. #168
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Cat View Post
    Overview

    Evans followed in his father's footsteps as an all-conference player for the Sooners; Scott was a three-time all-conference defensive tackle for Oklahoma in the late 1980's. Jordan earned his own All-Big 12 honors the past two seasons, starting with a second-team effort in 2015 despite missing two games due to injury. (83 tackles, five for loss, sack, four pass break-ups). He was a second-team pick in his senior year, as well, leading the Sooners with 98 tackles and four interceptions (also had 10 tackles for loss, 2.5 sacks, and eight pass break-ups). Evans started all 13 games as a sophomore, making 93 stops, 6.5 for loss, and two pass break-ups, one year after contributing in eight games in 2013 (12 tackles, missed five with an injury).
    Analysis

    Strengths

    Carries prototypical NFL frame for the position with low body fat and good length. Flexible and athletic. Productive tackler. Able to turn the corner sharply and track down running backs looking to burst between the tackles. Plus reactive quickness for sudden lateral explosion as a tackler. Has the twitch-trigger to fire downhilll and make plays. Carries outstanding play speed and has the potential to range around the field if kept clean. Fluid cover man in space in man or zone. Possesses ball skills and physical tools to play all three downs. Had twelve passes defensed this season including four interceptions. Weaknesses

    Finesse player. Scouts say he turns down too many opportunities to bang when it is in front of him. Often at the mercy of blockers. Needs to play stronger to maintain control of the rep in run support. Struggles to leverage his gap. Inconsistent angles to the football takes him out of some plays. Needs to be a more squared, physical finisher as a tackler. Allowed too many missed and broken tackles this season. Draft Projection

    Rounds 5-6 Bottom Line

    Productive, three-year starter who will garner attention as a height, weight, speed prospect especially after his strong pro day workout. Evans may lack the physical nature to hold up inside so he may have to find his way as a backup outside linebacker. Evans has enough traits and talent to become an eventual starter if he can play with better toughness and consistency.
    This was an "A+" pick. He makes the 53 on opening day.
    "The History of the National Football League proves that most games are won in the last two minutes of the first half or the second half." -- Vince Lombardi.

    "You're either incredibly prepared, or incredibly physically talented."

  9. #169
    Quote Originally Posted by Lewdog View Post
    Yeah I looked at his profile on other sites... but I thought it was funny that on ESPN they didn't have one.

    I'd still rather have Ben Boulware than this guy. Boulware is a football player... this guy screams Special Teams player first, LBer second. He ran a 4.51 forty time at the combine... so the Bengals are sticking to their new motto of wanting speed.
    Another reason why I don't watch espn or use their website. I've liked Evansas a possibility for us for months.
    "The History of the National Football League proves that most games are won in the last two minutes of the first half or the second half." -- Vince Lombardi.

    "You're either incredibly prepared, or incredibly physically talented."

  10. #170
    Quote Originally Posted by Lewdog View Post
    But at least Mays would hit people. Hell, Mays was known for knocking people out.
    yes...our people, their people,...
    "The History of the National Football League proves that most games are won in the last two minutes of the first half or the second half." -- Vince Lombardi.

    "You're either incredibly prepared, or incredibly physically talented."

  11. #171
    Quote Originally Posted by TD Bengals View Post
    Brandon Wilson was a RB, S, and CB in college. He's an athletic freak. Guessing we'll use him at safety and special teams.
    Another "A+" pick. I had him with a 2nd Rd grade.
    "The History of the National Football League proves that most games are won in the last two minutes of the first half or the second half." -- Vince Lombardi.

    "You're either incredibly prepared, or incredibly physically talented."

  12. #172
    Quote Originally Posted by #1 italian fan View Post
    We Love you all baby Bengals and welcome home

    Round 1, Pick 9 (9) John Ross WR 5'11" 188 Washington 6.1

    Round 2, Pick 16 (48) (From Vikings) Joe Mixon RB 6'1" 226 Oklahoma 6.0

    Round 3, Pick 9 (73) Jordan Willis OLB 6'4" 255 Kansas St. 5.8

    Round 4, Pick 9 (116) Carl Lawson OLB 6'2" 261 Auburn 5.6

    Round 4, Pick 22 (128) (From Vikings through Dolphins) Josh Malone WR 6'3" 208 Tennessee 5.2

    Round 4, Pick 32 (138) (Compensatory Selection) Ryan Glasgow DT 6'3" 302 Michigan 5.4

    Round 5, Pick 9 (153) Jake Elliott K 5'9" 167 Memphis 4.9

    Round 5, Pick 33 (176) (Compensatory Selection) J.J. Dielman C 6'5" 309 Utah 5.0

    Round 6, Pick 9 (193) Jordan Evans LB 6'2" 233 Oklahoma 5.4

    Round 6, Pick 23 (207) (From Titans through Giants) Brandon Wilson RB 5'11" 200 Houston 5.3

    Round 7, Pick 33 (251) (Compensatory Selection) Mason Schreck TE 6'5" 258 Buffalo --
    Thanks for posting that.
    "The History of the National Football League proves that most games are won in the last two minutes of the first half or the second half." -- Vince Lombardi.

    "You're either incredibly prepared, or incredibly physically talented."

  13. #173
    Quote Originally Posted by BlazerBenner View Post
    Another "A+" pick. I had him with a 2nd Rd grade.
    Possibly the most intriguing draft pick. Athletic freak as you said, and can play offense or defense and special teams. We just need to figure out where to put him but one of the most athletic players in the draft. Who can play running back AND cornerback? Or WR and safety? This guy.
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  14. #174
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Cat View Post
    For Braham first year where he played 3 games. Braham played guard until 1999, then Alexander moved him to center.

    List of 1st and 2nd round picks under Alexander.
    Willie Anderson, Levi Jones, Eric Stienbach, Andrew Whitworth, Andre Smith, and Kevin Zeitler. Then add Fisher and Ogbuehi.

    Six players in 20 years plus.
    Ok, 6 players that were top picks in all those years, what did he do with the rest? Name the players he molded from late round draft picks or UDFA that turned into great contributors to the team. That's all I'm asking.

  15. #175
    spicoli's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lewdog View Post
    Ok, 6 players that were top picks in all those years, what did he do with the rest? Name the players he molded from late round draft picks or UDFA that turned into great contributors to the team. That's all I'm asking.
    Well none of them turned into "great" contributors, but they all contributed nonetheless.....hell, even Bodine can claim to be an NFL starter on a playoff team..
    “We are not going in circles, we are going upwards. The path is a spiral; we have already climbed many steps.” --Hermann Hesse, Siddhartha

  16. #176
    Quote Originally Posted by spicoli View Post
    Well none of them turned into "great" contributors, but they all contributed nonetheless.....hell, even Bodine can claim to be an NFL starter on a playoff team..
    Please tell me you aren't counting him as a success? He's been graded bottom of the barrel for NFL starting centers every year...

    Flat out, Alexander has done nothing to deserve being a 20 year+ coach for the Bengals. On any other team he would have been replaced a long time ago.

  17. #177
    Again, if you were qualified to actually know NFL coaches or players, to a man, they acknowledge Paul Alexander as a great coach. Please tell me your qualifications to the contrary.
    "This game isn't worth it. The National Football League isn't worth it. There's golf to be played and tennis to be served up and other things to be done out there besides worryin' about a friggin' football game."----The prophet Sam Wyche

  18. #178
    Sith Lord ralphmtsu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Tigre View Post
    Again, if you were qualified to actually know NFL coaches or players, to a man, they acknowledge Paul Alexander as a great coach. Please tell me your qualifications to the contrary.
    Personally, I believe Alexander is a good OL coach; however, when you stay with one team for so long, players tune out or the coaching becomes stale. At that point, it might be best to bring in new blood to reinvigorate the position room.
    Don't underestimate the power of the Dark Side!

  19. #179
    Mike Brown was spoiled by Jim McNally. He turned many late round turds into gladiators. I would guess that 75-80% of all interior lineman drafted by the Bengals since '91 came from the 5th round or later. Alexander is no McNally but he hasn't had much to work with either.
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  20. #180
    Quote Originally Posted by Le Tigre View Post
    Again, if you were qualified to actually know NFL coaches or players, to a man, they acknowledge Paul Alexander as a great coach. Please tell me your qualifications to the contrary.
    I don't have to be qualified to be an NFL line coach to see other teams have coaches that turn mid to late round or UDFA linemen into starters that are solid contributors and Alexander doesn't. In fact Alexander has had more high draft picks that have failed to live up to their potential than he has had guys that he has turned from turds into diamonds. Has Andre Smith lived up to his draft position? Has Cedric? Has Fisher? What accolades exactly did Levi Jones ever get? I mean how many Pro Bowl selection did he get? How Many times was he an All-Pro? Why is it that every year we are talking about Bodine and how he needs to improve and step up, yet again and again he is grading out at the bottom of the barrel? What kind of coach keeps trotting out a guy that isn't getting the job done, and isn't able to coach him up to perform better? What kind of great coach turns down the opportunity to have a former star player help him?

    It's quite funny how often you point out other people's logical fallacies, but this is the second time you've used one. Man up and stick to the facts of the argument. In twenty years Alexander doesn't have a single guy he can point towards and say, "Hey I took a guy that other people didn't think highly of in the draft, and I turned him into a stud player."

  21. #181
    Quote Originally Posted by Pre_hungover View Post
    Mike Brown was spoiled by Jim McNally. He turned many late round turds into gladiators. I would guess that 75-80% of all interior lineman drafted by the Bengals since '91 came from the 5th round or later. Alexander is no McNally but he hasn't had much to work with either.
    Really? Whitworth- Second Round. Levi Jones- First Round. Willie Anderson- First Round. Steinbech- Second Round. Cedric- First Round. Fisher- Second Round. Zeitler- First Round. Melvin Tuten- Second Round. Ken Blackman- Third Round. Rod Payne- Third Round.

    I originally had Boling as a Third Rounder, then when I looked it up, he was actually a fourth rounder. So I'll admit, Boling being a Fourth Rounder is the best offensive lineman that Alexander has "coached up" in over twenty years...

    With that said look around the NFL and see just how many teams have a guy that was draft pick later than that or UDFA that is starting on their team.

  22. #182
    Luckily we have an owner that understands the need of drafting offensive tackles early. The argument being made against him could be made against defensive back coaches, etc. it's a pointless argument.

    Back to the draft.

    Wee hee. Hoo Hoo. Ha Ha!!!

    I went in hoping we would find a couple players out of 11 picks that would make the team. They did way better than that. I think this draft will go down as momentous for the top two picks. I love those picks. They are game changers. We should be able to find any opposing defense weakness and exploit it. We have never had this level of offensive talent.
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  23. #183
    Quote Originally Posted by yang View Post
    Luckily we have an owner that understands the need of drafting offensive tackles early. The argument being made against him could be made against defensive back coaches, etc. it's a pointless argument.

    Back to the draft.

    Wee hee. Hoo Hoo. Ha Ha!!!

    I went in hoping we would find a couple players out of 11 picks that would make the team. They did way better than that. I think this draft will go down as momentous for the top two picks. I love those picks. They are game changers. We should be able to find any opposing defense weakness and exploit it. We have never had this level of offensive talent.
    also got to stop the defensive strengths too. you know like a pass rush, keep looking at the shiny new toys. yes solid players but we did very little to address weak positions and only made solid or strong positins better. just because you got a round 3 ranked player in later round dont make it a A+ grade draft none of these guys have played a down yet.

  24. #184
    Quote Originally Posted by Stryker57 View Post
    also got to stop the defensive strengths too. you know like a pass rush, keep looking at the shiny new toys. yes solid players but we did very little to address weak positions and only made solid or strong positins better. just because you got a round 3 ranked player in later round dont make it a A+ grade draft none of these guys have played a down yet.
    Well there is something about doubling down at a position of need. Getting Willis AND Lawson is a step in the right direction. I just wish the Bengals had gotten a thumper ILB, but maybe with them bringing in Hardy Nickerson Jr. he can be that UDFA find the Bengals need.

  25. #185
    Quote Originally Posted by Lewdog View Post
    Really? Whitworth- Second Round. Levi Jones- First Round. Willie Anderson- First Round. Steinbech- Second Round. Cedric- First Round. Fisher- Second Round. Zeitler- First Round. Melvin Tuten- Second Round. Ken Blackman- Third Round. Rod Payne- Third Round.

    I originally had Boling as a Third Rounder, then when I looked it up, he was actually a fourth rounder. So I'll admit, Boling being a Fourth Rounder is the best offensive lineman that Alexander has "coached up" in over twenty years...
    You have a strange definition of interior linemen.
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  26. #186
    The 10 best OL per PFF include 4 1st rounders, 1 2nd, 3 3rds, and 2 4ths. SO along with the Joe Thomases and Tyron Smiths of the NFL are TJ Lang, Josh Sitton, Incognito, Terron Armstead, and Marshall Yanda all picked after round 2.
    Sort of an aside, if the Bengals downgrade players in the draft due to injury concerns per Tobin, just how good did they think Ogbuehi was? Top 10? Top 5?

  27. #187
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Cat View Post
    Boling should be the center.
    That would be great, too. Then move Bodine to LG.
    "The History of the National Football League proves that most games are won in the last two minutes of the first half or the second half." -- Vince Lombardi.

    "You're either incredibly prepared, or incredibly physically talented."

  28. #188
    Quote Originally Posted by Stryker57 View Post
    also got to stop the defensive strengths too. you know like a pass rush, keep looking at the shiny new toys. yes solid players but we did very little to address weak positions and only made solid or strong positins better. just because you got a round 3 ranked player in later round dont make it a A+ grade draft none of these guys have played a down yet.
    Well, obviously you can't evaluate this talent for a couple years. But most of us can remember when a 7th round pick would be an instant starter because the team was so horrible. We have depth and competition and who the hell doesn't like shiny new toys! I remember when we only had broken outdated Tecmo bowl while let's were doing the newest version of Madden.

    Our defense was strong down the stretch, We replaced some weak parts and added some new fast ones.

    And seriously, our offense is insane.
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  29. #189
    This draft will be determined as a success entirely on whether Willis and Lawson are able to contribute. This more than likely spells the end of the road for either Gilberry or Clarke, with it probably being Gilberry simply because of size of contract and age. You'll have a rotation of Dunlap, Willis, MJ, Lawson, and Clarke... with who knows what happens with Smith. As long as Billings is healthy and with the addition of Glasgow, the Bengals can finally have a full defensive line rotation like they did a few years ago when they were one of the top defenses in the league.

  30. #190
    I see what you're saying but I wouldn't be shocked at all if Johnson gets cut before Clarke.
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  31. #191
    Quote Originally Posted by Lewdog View Post
    This draft will be determined as a success entirely on whether Willis and Lawson are able to contribute. This more than likely spells the end of the road for either Gilberry or Clarke, with it probably being Gilberry simply because of size of contract and age. You'll have a rotation of Dunlap, Willis, MJ, Lawson, and Clarke... with who knows what happens with Smith. As long as Billings is healthy and with the addition of Glasgow, the Bengals can finally have a full defensive line rotation like they did a few years ago when they were one of the top defenses in the league.
    I think Willis starts and plays 600 snaps. His only competition is Lawson, who should play 400 snaps. Gilberry can fight it out with Williams and Thompson for the final two spots in the line. MJ has sucked for three years and is too costly. If they're willing to let go of Peko and Maualuga, then Johnson is gone, too, for the same reasons. Glasgow gets a spot because of where he was drafted. Sims is their best 1-technique at this time.
    "The History of the National Football League proves that most games are won in the last two minutes of the first half or the second half." -- Vince Lombardi.

    "You're either incredibly prepared, or incredibly physically talented."

  32. #192
    Wednesday on ESPNU at noon EST
    Orange Bowl
    Michigan vs Florida State
    The only game featuring a Bengal draftee(Glasgow) on ESPN network for at least the next week and a half.
    Only users lose drugs

  33. #193
    Quote Originally Posted by BlazerBenner View Post
    I think Willis starts and plays 600 snaps. His only competition is Lawson, who should play 400 snaps. Gilberry can fight it out with Williams and Thompson for the final two spots in the line. MJ has sucked for three years and is too costly. If they're willing to let go of Peko and Maualuga, then Johnson is gone, too, for the same reasons. Glasgow gets a spot because of where he was drafted. Sims is their best 1-technique at this time.
    It's going to be a really interesting situation in training camp. We don't usually start rookies at such an important position so I would think MJ stays for a year to groom them. They would really have to excel for him not to bet here in my mind. I don't think Glaskow is a lock either, probably practice squad. That all depends on how Sims/Thompson look obviously.

    And again, it's hard to believe we are talking back up defensive tackles and such. There were years we simply panned for a quality defensive starter anywhere.
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  34. #194
    Quote Originally Posted by yang View Post
    It's going to be a really interesting situation in training camp. We don't usually start rookies at such an important position so I would think MJ stays for a year to groom them. They would really have to excel for him not to bet here in my mind. I don't think Glaskow is a lock either, probably practice squad. That all depends on how Sims/Thompson look obviously.

    And again, it's hard to believe we are talking back up defensive tackles and such. There were years we simply panned for a quality defensive starter anywhere.
    PREACH!

    I remember when Heldicus had the fist pumping Barney pic in his sig with Hoo ha! We got a DT! attached when they signed Sam Adams.

    Remember when the Bengals would open a game in the prevent defense and stay there all game? Ten yard cushions as a standard even on 3rd and 2. Now we worry that one or more of the cuts that are mid-late round draft picks gets signed somewhere else and doesn't make it to the practice squad.
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  35. #195
    Quote Originally Posted by yang View Post
    Well, obviously you can't evaluate this talent for a couple years. But most of us can remember when a 7th round pick would be an instant starter because the team was so horrible. We have depth and competition and who the hell doesn't like shiny new toys! I remember when we only had broken outdated Tecmo bowl while let's were doing the newest version of Madden.

    Our defense was strong down the stretch, We replaced some weak parts and added some new fast ones.

    And seriously, our offense is insane.
    Is our offense insane with that O-line? If the O-line gels then it's insane. Otherwise it could be wild. As for Ross, my issue is health. Can he stay healthy in the NFL? If he can then he'll be a weapon for sure

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