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Thread: Less than a week until training camp

  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Le Tigre View Post
    IC with the predictable obfuscation: the point was (and I repeat), the OFFENSIVE LINES on Seattle and Green Bay were suspect--née substandard--and yet still made the playoffs.

    But since IC is going to get stuck on QB's--again predictable--let me toss in two more playoff qualifiers with so-so to substandard offensive lines: Houston and Detroit. How did they get there? Again, either very good defense and/or offense skill position. Want to bring up QB's again?
    You might have a point with Houston, but Detroit has Mathew Stafford and he's no slouch. There is a reason he is now one of the highest paid QBs in the NFL.


    Do you guys think the Bengals should take a shot at signing Orlando Franklin just in case Fisher doesn't work out at RT and they have to move Andre Smith back there out of the RG spot?

  2. #42
    Administrator Super Cat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I_C_DeadPeople View Post
    I am not. I simply accept Dalton for what he is. Fact is, if there was a playoff game to be played i would take Wilson of Ben hands down to play it over Andy. Not blaming him entirely, i am simply saying the others have proven to be at a higher level (not perfect) in big games. IMO Dalton needs a good OL, he is ineffective without one - others like Rodgers, Brady and Wilson can get by with a weaker OL.

    And Hill fumbled so why keep saying "if he did not then..". He fumbled, another key suck moment by a player in our recent playoff history. The team has been rife with players who do not make key plays at key moments to win playoff games. Coaches as well of course. I am not even sure how this can be debated. It is 100% fact. Might as well say the earth is 10,000 years old. Good players step up at key times to win big games - this is our pro sports works - champions play as such they dont back into it.
    Just because Dalton hasn't won a playoff game you discount him. He has won big games during the years without the best of offensive lines. Last year Dalton had no help from the offense. Green, Eifert, and Bernard played 10 games or less. Leaving Dalton with rookies at WR. Before Dalton got injured in 2015 I would have put him against any QB at that time. He was having that good of a year. Consider this Andy has played 6 years with 3 different offensive coordinators. Two who never was an OC in the NFL. Andy in 6 years had to three years where most of his wide receiving core was mostly made up of rookies. Each playoff game there were many injuries to the team and you can't really blame Andy for the losses other than 2011 his rookie year. And you talk about how good Rogers and Wilson are, do you realize that Andy beat both of them when playing against them.

  3. #43
    Sith Lord ralphmtsu's Avatar
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    Does Franklin have any gas left in the tank? I don't know. I'm thinking Andre at guard is now a liability and that Fisher is the cornerstone.
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  4. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by I_C_DeadPeople View Post
    I cant see how the OL can even be close to last year. Perhaps by year end if things start to come together. But the two tackles are newbies so they WILL struggle. Bodine is still the suck , we lost Zeitler and I have zero confidence Smith can play more than a few games. The so called stars will have to align for this OL to be even average. If the Ravens or Steelers had this OL situation we would be licking our chops. The second problem on offense is - i have little confidence in Zampese using all the weapons and being creative in a game plan with a weak OL, especially with ML pulling his puppet strings.

    Could be wrong, hope I am wrong but I see better than i hear.

    I am hopeful that ML will let Guenther run the D the way he wants, I think he is far more aggressive and can use guys like Lawson to create mis-matchs, etc. The D has a nice balance of youth and experience.
    Folks,the biggest weakness we have for our mighty bengals is of course the stinkin coaches,all of them suck.ML is stupid,the the OC is a joke.He got the gig because he was next in line,he calls a horrible game and I think once again this coaching staff is going to waste a bunch of top talent,hell,we got better talent than most of the league and it super sucks we have this C- coaching.If the stoolers had all this top talent,they would be unstoppable.I am so sick of watching Marvin blow games.he needs to step down and allow a stud coach to take over.We should be super bowl bound,but you watch,one of these goof-off players like pac,man will cost us a must win game because of something stupid he does.Its going to happen because Marvin allows it.I would like to say if everyone stays healthy and games their game and not listen to the dumbass coaches,we could win 12 or more, but its going to be interesting.We have a lot of top studs,if this staff plays them right,and get marvin out of making calls on game day.He sucks.

  5. #45
    spicoli's Avatar
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    Lol
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  6. #46
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    speaking of Andy...

    andy.jpg
    “We are not going in circles, we are going upwards. The path is a spiral; we have already climbed many steps.” --Hermann Hesse, Siddhartha

  7. #47
    Speaking of Andy, here's a post after Dalton was ranked 20th in the league by some website after his second season. I asked for 19 QBs that you'd rather have than Dalton and here was somebody's answers with my 2013 opinions added of each QB. I might change a few of those today. I watched a lot more non-Bengal games the last couple of years than I had the previous 10 years
    Eli - sucks without a good running game
    RGIII - flash in the pan . . . but we'll always have 2012
    Romo - sat for three and a half years before seeing the field
    Vick - lol your desperation is showing
    Rodgers - sat for three years before starting, Amazing accuracy
    Cutler - Dalton has already surpassed his stats. One playoff season in 7 years.
    Stafford - Threw 727 passes to get 20 TDs last season. And you people complain that AD doesn't utilize Green correctly
    Brees - started out 4-12 in games he threw 30+ passes his first 32 starts, weak arm, ran out of SD ... all-pro, but let me guess, you saw his ability long ago, right?
    Ryan - 1 playoff win in 5 seasons. Great stats but you keep nominating people that are chock full of the same weaknesses that AD gets ripped for.
    Freeman - Half of his four seasons, he threw more INTs than TDs. One winning season.
    Newton - Has yet to call an audible. Just about every pass stat dropped in 2012, but he did lead the team in rushing so I guess that counts for something.
    Kaepernick - Great runner. Still bird dogs his receivers ... very fortunate to have his primary target get open a lot otherwise, he's running. Has a great HC
    Wilson - incomplete . . . only saw him play one half and they looked awful
    Bradford - stats are inferior to Dalton's, yet to have a winning season
    Brady - Still the class of the league . . . hasn't won a Super Bowl since Corey Dillon's first season in New England
    Tannehill - 1-7 when throwing the ball 30+ times . . . Dalton was 6-5 each season
    Schaub - three year backup has a stud receiver, quality TEs and a strong running game.
    Luck - Looked very solid and like a #1 pick
    Flacco - Very streaky. Coming off of the best stretch of his career
    Roethlisberger - Still looks to scramble before going through his progressions. Been sacked over 40 times 5 times in his career.Only thrown over 500 passes twice
    Rivers - Weaker arm than Dalton. 14-2, 11-5, 8-8, 13-3 with LT. 9-7, 8-8, 7-9 after LT went to the Jets. Still immature at 31 years old.
    Peyton - Weaker arm than Dalton . . . still phenomenal.
    Mallet - LOL based on what? Game film from three seasons ago in the SEC?

    I do give you credit for not putting Palmer in there'
    Boy, it's amazing what a few years does to a football post.
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  8. #48
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    Holy shit, did someone seriously say that they'd rather have Josh ####ing Freeman over AD??

    that's absolutely priceless.
    “We are not going in circles, we are going upwards. The path is a spiral; we have already climbed many steps.” --Hermann Hesse, Siddhartha

  9. #49
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    to me it seems like people are just having a really hard time differentiating today's AD from the rookie AD from 2011.

    it's almost like nobody wants to admit that they were wrong about him or that they just can't let go of the narrative they cooked up in there own heads after AD's rookie season.

    sad really.
    “We are not going in circles, we are going upwards. The path is a spiral; we have already climbed many steps.” --Hermann Hesse, Siddhartha

  10. #50
    Sith Lord ralphmtsu's Avatar
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    2017 Prediction-- Dalton will set Bengal records for most TD passes in a season, most passing yards in a season, highest pass percentage in a season, and highest YPA in a season.
    Don't underestimate the power of the Dark Side!

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by spicoli View Post
    to me it seems like people are just having a really hard time differentiating today's AD from the rookie AD from 2011.

    it's almost like nobody wants to admit that they were wrong about him or that they just can't let go of the narrative they cooked up in there own heads after AD's rookie season.

    sad really.
    No one can argue Dalton has not improved a lot since he started. But he was part of the 4 playoff game clusterf*ck (as were many others) and in my mind he needs to get over that hump to gain the next level of respectability. Let's say he sets all kinds of regular season records this year then craps his pants in another playoff loss? Then what? Then he is regular season elite and post season crap. There are a number of players and coaches on this team who simply have under performed in multiple playoff games. Until that changes, expect the same result.
    Marvin Lewis - the Clapping Clown.

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by I_C_DeadPeople View Post
    No one can argue Dalton has not improved a lot since he started. But he was part of the 4 playoff game clusterf*ck
    Well McCarron started one of those games and Andy was a rookie QB in another one going up against a team on the road that was a huge favorite.....not sure I'd be so quick to criticize really, there's been plenty of QB's that have went on to become great that struggled early on in their careers winning playoff games.

    IMO, Andy's just getting started and will, without a doubt, go down as the greatest QB in Bengals history.......and will win plenty of playoff games along the way barring major injury (knock on wood).
    “We are not going in circles, we are going upwards. The path is a spiral; we have already climbed many steps.” --Hermann Hesse, Siddhartha

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by spicoli View Post
    Well McCarron started one of those games and Andy was a rookie QB in another one going up against a team on the road that was a huge favorite.....not sure I'd be so quick to criticize really, there's been plenty of QB's that have went on to become great that struggled early on in their careers winning playoff games.

    IMO, Andy's just getting started and will, without a doubt, go down as the greatest QB in Bengals history.......and will win plenty of playoff games along the way barring major injury (knock on wood).
    Hopefully you are correct. Even Peyton quite frankly was a below average playoff QB. Eli , once in the playoffs was much better. Had we sent ML upstairs or out the door and replaced some of the staff with more competent coaches I would be as hopeful as many of you are here.
    Marvin Lewis - the Clapping Clown.

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by I_C_DeadPeople View Post
    No one can argue Dalton has not improved a lot since he started. But he was part of the 4 playoff game clusterf*ck (as were many others) and in my mind he needs to get over that hump to gain the next level of respectability. Let's say he sets all kinds of regular season records this year then craps his pants in another playoff loss? Then what? Then he is regular season elite and post season crap. There are a number of players and coaches on this team who simply have under performed in multiple playoff games. Until that changes, expect the same result.
    I wasn't necessarily talking about you, btw....just in general really.
    “We are not going in circles, we are going upwards. The path is a spiral; we have already climbed many steps.” --Hermann Hesse, Siddhartha

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by ralphmtsu View Post
    2017 Prediction-- Dalton will set Bengal records for most TD passes in a season, most passing yards in a season, highest pass percentage in a season, and highest YPA in a season.
    I couldn't agree more, I think he puts up huge numbers this year.....MVP type numbers.
    “We are not going in circles, we are going upwards. The path is a spiral; we have already climbed many steps.” --Hermann Hesse, Siddhartha

  16. #56
    Dalton might break some records, but I doubt YPA will be one of them. He will be doing way too many short patterns to make up for the deficiencies of the O-Line.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Lewdog View Post
    Dalton might break some records, but I doubt YPA will be one of them. He will be doing way too many short patterns to make up for the deficiencies of the O-Line.
    He's been doing that since he has been here, in fact, his quick release is why he was drafted. The Bengals now have a few guys on the roster that are going to gain more yards after the catch than the pedestrian WRs that preceded them. Ross, Malone and Mixon are going to break/shake a few tackles in the open field. Remember LaFell's awesome catch and run, versus the Texans I believe? Expect a few more plays like that out of Dalton's short, quick passes.
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  18. #58
    4. O-line a Mixed Bag

    Thursday was a so-so day for the offensive line. Throughout the session, there continued to be negative updates on this much-maligned unit. Seeing the enigmatic Will Clarke beating your starting left tackle is not a great sight, especially since Clarke may not even make the final roster. Ogbuehi’s struggles didn’t end there, however, as rookie Jordan Willis also got the better of the third-year lineman. Ogbuehi struggled to block just about anyone last year, but the hope is he’ll improve dramatically this year. If he doesn’t, either Ogbuehi won’t keep his job for long, or Andy Dalton won’t make it through 16 games.
    Marvin Lewis - the Clapping Clown.

  19. #59
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    #IronSharpensIron
    “We are not going in circles, we are going upwards. The path is a spiral; we have already climbed many steps.” --Hermann Hesse, Siddhartha

  20. #60
    It is frustrating that after hearing how hard Cedric worked in the offseason I expected so much more, and here he is getting beat by everyone but the water boy. It sucks.

  21. #61
    from Hobson
    SLANTS AND SCREENS: On Friday, Tony Corrente, the head referee of the crew that is visiting PBS, walked the media through the film the league provides each club every year reviewing rules changes and points of emphasis and said he believes the biggest impact is the rule liberalizing celebrations.

    Players can now celebrate together in the end zone and use the ball as a prop. But as the film showed former Bengals wide receiver Chad Johnson in a decade-old clip doing his “Tiger Hood,” celebration putting the ball with a pylon, the reminder is no other props can be used.

    “As soon as there’s a touchdown, the 40-second (play) clock is going until the ball is kicked off,” Guenther said. “If the celebration takes 30 seconds, that’s only 10 seconds for the kick-off team. We’re not going to do that stuff anyway. Just give the ball to the official. Act like you’ve been there before. I think they understand the rule now. If you’re jumping in the end zone, we’re going to get a delay on the kickoff.” …

    I like that. Score and celebrate on your way back to your sideline.
    Only users lose drugs

  22. #62
    Not worthy of a new thread:

    The CFL, only 1/3rd through it's season has a new Commissioner and he has changed the rule of coaches challenges - they were allowed 3 now only 1. New guy said the game has many human errors in it and we cant stop the flow of the game to 'fish' for penalties. Great move and the game i watched last night had far less stoppages. So now the coaches have to be strategic with the use of the challenge.
    Marvin Lewis - the Clapping Clown.

  23. #63
    4) Offensive Line Struggling

    For the second straight day, the offensive line had an underwhelming practice that will only keep the concern level high here. The line was holding up well through the early part of camp, but after taking a step back on Thursday, Friday was more of the same. They're working the 2 minute drill today, and this is the first time I've noticed Dalton under pressure consistently. Sadly, Ogbuehi getting beat has been a consistent theme the past two days. If your left tackle is struggling, it really doesn’t matter how well the other four linemen are playing. It’s going to make the whole line look bad, but Ogbuehi can’t take the entire blame when one of the league’s worst centers is next to a project right guard in the starting lineup. Hopefully, these are just some early struggles and the line works through its issues as the season nears.
    Marvin Lewis - the Clapping Clown.

  24. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by I_C_DeadPeople View Post
    4) Offensive Line Struggling

    For the second straight day, the offensive line had an underwhelming practice that will only keep the concern level high here. The line was holding up well through the early part of camp, but after taking a step back on Thursday, Friday was more of the same. They're working the 2 minute drill today, and this is the first time I've noticed Dalton under pressure consistently. Sadly, Ogbuehi getting beat has been a consistent theme the past two days. If your left tackle is struggling, it really doesn’t matter how well the other four linemen are playing. It’s going to make the whole line look bad, but Ogbuehi can’t take the entire blame when one of the league’s worst centers is next to a project right guard in the starting lineup. Hopefully, these are just some early struggles and the line works through its issues as the season nears.
    Link?
    "This game isn't worth it. The National Football League isn't worth it. There's golf to be played and tennis to be served up and other things to be done out there besides worryin' about a friggin' football game."----The prophet Sam Wyche

  25. #65
    spicoli's Avatar
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    that's a pretty damn good d-line that they're going up against every day and Lawson is looking like a beast...I wouldn't get too worked up about the OL getting whooped by our DL at the moment, they're going to do that to a lot of people throughout the year IMO......going up against that group on a daily basis though is only going to make them better in the long run, just gotta stay healthy.

    and by all accounts so far btw, Jake Fisher and Trey Hopkins have looked outstanding and could be legit building blocks up front going forward.

    also, as long as OGB keeps his confidence up and stays healthy, he'll be fine, I don't worry about him......things will start clicking for him soon enough...plus Lap has said he's had plenty of good days so far as well. .
    “We are not going in circles, we are going upwards. The path is a spiral; we have already climbed many steps.” --Hermann Hesse, Siddhartha

  26. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Le Tigre View Post
    Link?
    https://www.cincyjungle.com/2017/8/4...akeaways-day-7
    Marvin Lewis - the Clapping Clown.

  27. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by spicoli View Post
    that's a pretty damn good d-line that they're going up against every day and Lawson is looking like a beast...I wouldn't get too worked up about the OL getting whooped by our DL at the moment, they're going to do that to a lot of people throughout the year IMO......going up against that group on a daily basis though is only going to make them better in the long run, just gotta stay healthy.

    and by all accounts so far btw, Jake Fisher and Trey Hopkins have looked outstanding and could be legit building blocks up front going forward.

    also, as long as OGB keeps his confidence up and stays healthy, he'll be fine, I don't worry about him......things will start clicking for him soon enough...plus Lap has said he's had plenty of good days so far as well. .
    Yeah except he isn't just getting beat by Lawson, he's getting beat by Will Clarke.

  28. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lewdog View Post
    Yeah except he isn't just getting beat by Lawson, he's getting beat by Will Clarke.
    so? is Will Clarke not allowed to win a match-up every once in awhile? guy had 4 sacks last year and was a 3rd round pick, it's not like he's completely incompetent.

    mostly he's getting beat by Carl Lawson....just like everybody else is.
    “We are not going in circles, we are going upwards. The path is a spiral; we have already climbed many steps.” --Hermann Hesse, Siddhartha

  29. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by spicoli View Post
    so? is Will Clarke not allowed to win a match-up every once in awhile? guy had 4 sacks last year and was a 3rd round pick, it's not like he's completely incompetent.

    mostly he's getting beat by Carl Lawson....just like everybody else is.
    Cedric is a first round pick that is going into his third year and was anointed the LT of the future. He's getting beat by mid to late round draft picks on a regular basis including Will Clarke who has been a bust. Clarke has 4.5 sacks in 3 years.

    Let me add that on another forum I was defending Cedric before they put the pads on, when the author of a story was talking bad about him. Well from that first week until now nothing has changed. He's still getting beat a lot.


    No one has mentioned it, but does anyone think the Dolphins call about McCarron? Or is his cost too high just for one year?

  30. #70
    With our OL in transition it would be quite foolish to trade McCarron. There is a much higher risk of a QB injury this year based simply on the level of inexperience
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  31. #71
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    we're one full week into camp so I'm not the least bit concerned if the defense is a bit ahead at this point.......talk to me when we've played all 4 pre-season games, if OGB is struggling mightily after that, THEN I'll be concerned......right now it's just too early to make any real assumptions.

    for some reason though no one seems to wanna hear or even cares that the offense has had their good days as well....that includes OGB.

    people do understand that the guys on the other side of the ball are getting paid too, right? I mean, they're allowed to win a few of their match-ups from time to time lol.
    “We are not going in circles, we are going upwards. The path is a spiral; we have already climbed many steps.” --Hermann Hesse, Siddhartha

  32. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by spicoli View Post
    we're one full week into camp so I'm not the least bit concerned if the defense is a bit ahead at this point.......talk to me when we've played all 4 pre-season games, if OGB is struggling mightily after that, THEN I'll be concerned......right now it's just too early to make any real assumptions.

    for some reason though no one seems to wanna hear or even cares that the offense has had their good days as well....that includes OGB.

    people do understand that the guys on the other side of the ball are getting paid too, right? I mean, they're allowed to win a few of their match-ups from time to time lol.
    Yeah and the guys beating him are rookies and third stringers. What do you think guys like Suggs, Watt, Myles Garrett, Clay Mathews and stars are going to do to him? Dalton is going to be broken and out of action by week 5.

  33. #73
    I am sure Playoff QB Russell Wilson--with the worst offensive line in the league (and protected again by George Fant or Luke Joekel) isn't going to be broken in pieces anymore than he was a year ago. Is Playoff QB Matthew Stafford--behind his mushy wall and Greg Robinson in particular? I can keep going.

    Spic has already laid out very logical counters. Unless you just want to imagine the worst--which is, of course, expected.
    "This game isn't worth it. The National Football League isn't worth it. There's golf to be played and tennis to be served up and other things to be done out there besides worryin' about a friggin' football game."----The prophet Sam Wyche

  34. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Le Tigre View Post
    I am sure Playoff QB Russell Wilson--with the worst offensive line in the league (and protected again by George Fant or Luke Joekel) isn't going to be broken in pieces anymore than he was a year ago. Is Playoff QB Matthew Stafford--behind his mushy wall and Greg Robinson in particular? I can keep going.

    Spic has already laid out very logical counters. Unless you just want to imagine the worst--which is, of course, expected.
    I've already said I defended Cedric before... but please tell me how saying that a guy that is getting beat consistently by Will Clarke has your confidence? The first 4 games of the season, Cedric is going against Suggs, Watt, Mathews, and Myles. I don't care about those other teams. They have nothing to do with the Bengals and are a non sequitur. The Bengals lost two starters on the offensive line that gave up 41 sacks last year, including their Pro Bowl LT and a top RG, and replaced them with who? Ignoring the weakness of the offensive line is just silly, and then going to that same old, "You guys just want to be negative" is just old. Please get a new line.

    Seriously, me and you have had some disagreements lately, but you say the same thing over and over. This forum is for discussing the Bengals, which includes their weaknesses. This isn't the old fan board on Bengals.com that was a complete homer board where people got banned for anything that was considered negative.

  35. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lewdog View Post
    Yeah and the guys beating him are rookies and third stringers. What do you think guys like Suggs, Watt, Myles Garrett, Clay Mathews and stars are going to do to him? Dalton is going to be broken and out of action by week 5.
    lol....if you say so.
    “We are not going in circles, we are going upwards. The path is a spiral; we have already climbed many steps.” --Hermann Hesse, Siddhartha

  36. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by spicoli View Post
    lol....if you say so.
    Cincyjungle is reporting how he was getting beat by castoff Chris Smith. Is there anyone on the roster that hasn't beat him?

  37. #77
    Guys, please don't fight
    Only users lose drugs

  38. #78
    Oh my. Message delivered!

    Please everyone...DO NOT QUOTE that post!!!
    "This game isn't worth it. The National Football League isn't worth it. There's golf to be played and tennis to be served up and other things to be done out there besides worryin' about a friggin' football game."----The prophet Sam Wyche

  39. #79
    TD Bengals's Avatar
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    Uzomah was carted off the field today.

    https://twitter.com/JamesRapien/stat...43457221906433

  40. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by TD Bengals View Post
    Uzomah was carted off the field today.

    https://twitter.com/JamesRapien/stat...43457221906433
    Yeah that sucks, but if it is anything fairly serious, as long as there are no more serious injuries, he could be a guy that is brought back... though with Hewitt being more active in the passing game, they could just keep Eifert, Kroft, and Hewitt with so many runningbacks doing well they might need the extra spot.

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